What I see here are a lot of good people trying to have a meaningful discussion in good faith, but it does not seem to be actually working.

A couple of observations:

1. All human beings are affected by racism, in direct and indirect ways. ("Affected by" and "targeted by" are not the same thing.)

2. Racism means many things to many people, and not everyone means the same thing by the word. It can mean discriminatory behavior, violence, discomfort, rekindled memories.... all sorts of things. Until one learns what it means to the one using the word, discussion (underneath the outer layer) is about... apples and machine oil! :~)

3. Respect for someone else's culture gets to be a tricky thing in a multi-cultural setting. We all have hot-buttons of one sort or another that make it hard to "hear" one another. Yet we yearn to understand one another, and to be understood, so we often rush ahead of the resources to actually DO it.

4. "Culture" is not a pure, pristine thing devoid of patterns of wrongness toward people of other cultures. It's a mix, and sometimes, a mess. We acquire it from people we love and respect. Taking out the things we decide, later, were wrong, is very hard to do, and it can't be forced on people except as regards behavior.

5. "Respect our UK traditions and culture" has as much value as "respect our US traditions and culture." Around Mudcat it has too frequently become the fashion to judge first, then attempt to sort out the cultural issues. The balance tips back and forth across the pond, usually with little or no undersanding being gained.

6. I have spotted as many as six separate and distinct on-topic conversations going on in this thread, with people responding to what one person has said as tho it were directed to one of the specific conversations in progress-- but usually it had been aimed at a different conversaton! The usual reaction seems to be, "I didn't mean that" or "I didn't say that" or "You don't understand." This defensivenss should not be a surprise in such loaded-with-distress topics.

7. In diffucult areas like this topic, it all often boils down to, "No-- YOU should have understood ME, MY hurts, MY fears, MY values." But once it gets difficult, usually no one is thinking differently! No one is listening to YOU, tending instead to listen to themselves.

8. It turns out that topics like this can be handled more effectively in PMs or email. Some of y'all might want to try it there, one on one. Another good place to handle them is in Chat, where whatever is misunderstood can be cleared up before the reaction gets too far away from one.


Just some things to think about. Not a judgment or a criticism. Just the stuff I see after years of working with groups that are trying to discuss hot topics.

~Susan