First, two points for David Hannam.

1) How is your second post about DNA supposed to address my point that jurors will never know whether DNA has proved a case? They (judges too) must rely on expert witnesses to interpret the scinetific evidence. There have been cases in the UK of such witnesses lying on oath or making grossly misleading claims about the probabilities associated with DNA science. A whole series of convictions in the west Midlands were quashed when it emerged that a senior police officer had persistently lied about forensic evidence.(And what "recent polls" do you have in mind when you talk about the popular attitude to capital punishment?)

As i said, a case for capital punishment in my opinion should be backed by Irrefutable evidence backed, i.e guilt beyond dispute, caught red-handed AND backed by DNA evidence.

By your reckoning, you could suppose Myra Hindley & Brady 'could' have been innocent? Of course they weren't, they should have recieved the punishment that they deserved, i.e removal of the face of the earth.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/crime/_story/0,13260,942118,00.html

67 per cent support the death penalty.

http://www.mori.com/polls/1995/notw950804.shtml

77 per cent support the death penalty.


2) No need to get hysterical David. We are NOT living in an epidemic of paedophilia. Trends are hard to monitor because reporting levels were historically low. But if there has been any significant increase in individual cases coming to public notice (and I'm not sure that this is so) then it will largely be because paedophiles have been driven off some of their traditional hunting grounds - the churches, scouting and to some extent teaching, etc.

Actually, we are living in an epidemic. It is not hysteria on my part, but reasoning of the situation we live in where Nearly 79,000 children are currently looked after by local authorities in the UK. Estimates now state that at least1 in 4 males and 1 in 3 females will have survived some form of sexual abuse before reaching the age of 18! In the UK, that accounts for over 20.83% of the population!That means in excess of 10,400,000 people in the UK are survivors of sexual abuse.

You must have another definition on what an epidemic is?

It seems extraordinary, given the mood nowadays, that in the 1970s paedophilia was, in some degree, recognised as a clinical condition like psychopathy, and serious work was directed towards seeing whether people could be "cured". In those days, paedophiles were sometimes quite open about their proclivities and even had their own association. In fact their press officer was a member of the NUJ who worked for the Open University in his day job.

Indeed, a sympton of liberalism gone mad, when to suggest a peadophile could be 'cured' was the ultimate madness. I take it you are not suggesting that such a perversion is simply another form of sexuality are you?

Just to underscore Greg's point that attitudes change, it's worth noting that each of the 25 counts against Oscar Wilde stated that the alleged behaviour (always in private, and always between consenting adults) offended "against the peace of our said Lady the Queen, her Crown, and dignity." Incidentally, Dave's Wife may wish to note that "Bosie" (Alfred Lord Douglas) was never mentioned at all in the indictment. The individuals cited were prostitutes.

I don't think Oscar Wilde was imprisoned for child abuse!

Like weelittledrummer I am sure that nobody who finds sexual gratification in a pre-adolescent child does so out of mere wilfulness, and that whatever makes them so disposed is something over which they have no control. Partly for that reason I find the lust for vengeance expressed by people like the Villan sickening and depressing. (And yes, I do have a daughter, Villan. So what? If she fell victim to a paedophile, that would be a tragedy for two families.)

This is utter tripe. Sorry, usually i am more tactful. By your reckoning, Sydney Cooke who abducted over 20 children, raped them then killed them was 'not in control' of his actions? This is tripe. Everyone is accountable for their actions, and considering that child perverts do not contrary to opinion live in the dark alleys of British streets, but in fact hold seats of parliament, council chambers, high courts as judges/magistrates, they are clearly not of the 'unintelligant' sort!

That was in 1972 and all that's changed is that the media is even more reckless and irresponsible now than it was then.

Well i agree here. Considering the media push promoting sexual deviancy, homosexuality, and ever-younger girls paraded for the pleasure of men, the media is irresponsible.