Just to go back to the original question...I think it has been answered but subculture is all in how you view it. It would seem to most that a bunch of people carrying on threading conversations about, of all the obscure topics in an alternate vs parallel universe, FOLK MUSIC would constitute a subculture. Thus, one Sturgen's crap is another person's delight. When presented with two options always go for the most interesting, even if it isn't in "the right group". Of course if you really want to be "bad", just follow Mae West's advice...when presented with two evils always chose the one you haven't done before.