Look fellas, everyone who comes to the BS section here knows the two of you won't change your mind. In that sense, you are the Dem version of DougR, Teribus, et al.

You are both rigid liberal ideologues, who can't think outside the presidential politics box because you are addicted to horse race politics.

The majority of people working on authentic, genuine social, political, religious, and economic change don't even pay attention to the horse race game, much less participate in it.

They are too busy out building the movement that will overthrow the system you two believe in as if it were the Holy Grail itself.