Lizzie Cornish wrote: "The Spirit often conquers Science, over and again, olafr. I am living proof of that".

Firstly, I should reiterate the fact that I have religious belief, it's patently not yours - horses for courses and all that :) - so I do at least appreciate some of the things that you and Georgiansilver are saying. Again, I'm also very interested in Forteana and believe that the 'unlikely' and 'impossible' sometimes do happen. Also, despite what you might think, I'm actually a pretty caring and considerate person: I'm not a monster!

I'm just quite careful to as best distinguish between concepts like mind, soul, mental health and spiritual well-being when religion is a factor.


Had my two experiences been the other way round, there would only have been ONE experience, for if I had been treated so 'scientifically' at the beginning, by that second group of people who did things totally 'by the book' I would never have gone on to hold my newborn son in my arms 4 years later, against so many medical odds.

It was that Dr. Dubbins belief in me, which gave me my own self belief.

The Nun can often give life where the Scientist cannot, because she brings Love and Hope into the equation. Mother Theresa of Calcutta was a prime example of that.

When the Spirit is connected up with the Science then you have a far more powerful solution.

I'm not convinced because the power of 'positive thinking' is not the same thing as religiously motivated prayer. I believe positive thinking is a valuable tool in recovery but it's silly to think that the two things are synonymous. This thread is evidence of that. In the right situation religious prayer or motivated thinking might help, however in the wrong situation the same can create exactly the opposite effect if it's not wanted or uncalled for: bad feeling and negativity.

Also, objectively speaking, none of us have any real genuine way of knowing whether religious intervention actually makes a difference in healing. How do we know other than 'faith'? How do we know that the healing wouldn't have happened anyway, even unexpectedly? Unless we have two separate 'time lines' to compare against - one with alleged religious intervention and one without - then we objectively have no way of really knowing. As it stands, it's a mixture of faith and confirmation bias.

Science alone can sometimes kill, because it will not allow Love to enter into its 'equation'.

True. However, for the sake of balance, so can religion alone. Also, there's far, far, far more examples of clinical (in the cold sense of the word) medicine healing people that people being 'loved' or 'prayed' to good health.