I'm happy to argue that it is (or was) traditional because of 1)the position it was in, 2)the circumstances in which it was sung, and 3)the expectation of the community towards it, when Mervyn started singing it in, I believe, 1965. And that is NOTHING to do with the folk revival. What happened to it after Jim & Johnny took it on is not relevant to my argument - but interesting nevertheless (rather parallel to Rosabella, in fact). Personally, I have never claimed that what has become called 'The Farewell Shanty' was a folk-song (whatever that is), nor traditional prior to its introduction to the extant sining tradition in North Cornwall, nor a shanty.

The argument that there is no evidence it was 'ever' traditional relies on a vision of what is traditional that is foreign to me. In my opinion - and we are all though this dealing merely with opinion - whether a thing is traditional or not is defined by the expectation of the community within which it is extant - it becomes traditional within that community - rather like folk songs, in fact. History, and for that matter community, did not end with the nineteenth century. And certainly not because Thatcher said so! (Sorry, that was irrelevant interpolation).

Gibb - I can't find the Bully thread at the moment - but then, I was only expressing an opinion about what Short's version it felt like!

TomB