"Your suggestion was that if we didn't want "MANY singers who are unprepared, shuffling though papers etc, most people will tolerate the occasional duff unprepared performer" we should call in the experts.
Your suggestion is both elitist and patronising."Jim Carroll
I said
"MANY singers who are unprepared, shuffling though papers etc, most people will tolerate the occasional duff unprepared performer"
I saidSubject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: Good Soldier Schweik - PM
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 04:26 AM

"There's nothing wrong with booking guests, but the democracy of the early folk clubs which allowed us to make our own music, sing our own songs and become aware of our own traditions without having to have them sold to us by professionals was what made folk song unique, just as being able to scratch together a group with tea-chest bases and guitars and sing and play skiffle was equally unique."
I do not disagree, but my point is that those people practised,and performed without shuffling through crib sheets, is that not correct Jim? did they or did they not perform without words in front of them?
"Professionalism doesn't necessarily mean good - enough evidence of this to be found, god knows"
yes it does, it means good performance, please do not insult professional musicians, who practise hard turn up on time deliver an entertaining evening,and remember their words without crib sheets, play and musical instruments with a high level of competence, a professional musician may not necessarily be to your taste , that is a different matter.Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: Good Soldier Schweik - PM
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:19 AM

I am suggesting everybody should practise so that they can perform to the best of their abilities, that they should have rehearsed and be familiar with their material, that is not elitist it is showing respect for ones material and respect for those that have come to listen.
Traditional singers like Fred Jordan who were good performers understood this, I do not recall seeing Fred ever perform with a crib sheet even when he was quite old.
here is Jim Carrolls quote, basically more Carroll Codswallop
"Are you suggesting that residents and local singers do these things - a bit elitist, don't you think?"
what is elitist about trying to perform well? Subject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: Good Soldier Schweik - PM
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 02:50 PM

ubject: RE: guest nights and singaround clubs
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 12 Oct 14 - 11:08 AM

In the past, the best clubs were those that you field a team of their own residents good enough to take a whole evening to themselves
Singers from the floor spots gave visitors a chance to be heard and, if good enough, be invited to perform regularly.
The most imaginative clubs were those that ran workshops to enable new or inexperienced singers to develop and gain confidence.
The clubs I was involved with had a conscious policy of only having one guest night in every four - none of them ever really needed more than that as the residents were competent to take full evenings themselves, that way, we could use the door-takings for publicity and projects such as research and producing song books.
Too many guests always seemed to me to be counter-productive - far more valuable to establish a strong home-base
Jim Carroll"
Yes very good points,
but if the club does not have good resident singers, or only a couple of good residents it is better to have guests who are professional in their attitude and are good competent performers, rather than having MANY singers who are unprepared, shuffling though papers etc, most people will tolerate the occasional duff unprepared performer, but not half a dozen or ten of them.
please stop quoting me out of context.
And please stop suggesting that Iam saying things that i have not said