and lastly, shimrod. I have read many if not most of the links provided in past discussions. I have seen some dawkins and co on tv and u tube. I even read some of origins, and it only evidenced natural selection, which is part of the creation model anyway, as I suggested, that is probably more than you have looked at creationist material. as to propaganda, I was probably using the word more loosely, but none the less, I would say that much of what does harm and degrade society is compatible with evolutionary belief, though I would stop short of claiming universal, intentional harming. and I reject the notion that evolutionary belief is crucially interconnected to observational science, though it has often hindered it !. care to name any scientific invention that required Darwinist imput ?. rejection of evolutionism does nothing to hinder science...quite the reverse.    as you ask....who would benefit from such madness ? so what is the benefit of evolutionism ? ..other than an excuse to reject God, and be unaccountable to him.