its sad that sensible debate is not possible on this subject on this forum?

quite predictable is the stream of abuse from the usual suspects.

it is an interesting subject, worthy of debate and it would interesting to know how our different experiences could provide enlightenment and discussion.

however you may as well close the thread now.

lets cut to the chase. this thread merely provides for unpleasant people with a talent for abuse, an interstice in which they can and will exercise their talents.
lets avoid the unpleasantness - cut it off at source.