I have taken part fully in the debate in this thread, akenaton, thank you. The reason I find it impossible on most occasions to engage in discussion with you is that you rarely say anything to which it's possible to provide a civil and constructive response that would further the conversation. I find the bigotry expressed in some of your posts offensive. I find your interpretation of terms such as socialism and liberalism to be so wide of the mark as to be laughable, you appear to be afflicted with unthinking xenophobia bordering on racism, and you have a way of championing people who I find detestable. There are plenty of people here who disagree with me some or all the time, but very few people would agree that I have "nothing to say." I hope this helps to explain my earlier advice to people that engaging you in any kind of serious discussion is a waste of time and effort. And I don't need to get gratuitously sweary in my posts. Annoying, isn't it.