People are dancing around the argument I'm making that if you see various parties as equivalent then anything they do in pursuit of their aims is 'ok'. (The school bully is simply making the small kid punch himself because he has a right to feel good, too).

If Israel is equivalent to the DDR, then their walls are a wash. Some people get ahead, some get hurt, it's all the same. The fact that they each have motives is greater than what the motives actually are. The fact that they are each trying to preserve their society is more important than the facts OF the society. And that goes for Cuba, too, apparently.

I'm saying that it's NOT THE SAME.

Extending this argument one can argue the British built concentration camps and interned Boers. The Americans built camps and interned Japanese U.S. citizens. The Germans built concentration camps and interned Jews, Communists, Gypsies, Homosexuals et. al. The Russians built an extensive Gulag system and interned a host of people for a host of reasons (including none). Each event has its own justifications from the point of view of the constructor. Each is controversial.

I'm saying that the United States, the Soviet Union, Great Britain, and Nazi Germany were still NOT THE SAME just 'cause they all built camps.

That was my original intent on responding to Joe Offer's post of 02 Dec 16 - 09:34 PM . That is why I responded against Joe's statement (in italics):

"Both Israel and the DDR could argue that they needed their walls for basic survival, and that's a valid argument. The Castro regime could argue the same for restricting emigration from Cuba."
I responded:
"With your third paragraph, I think you have either walked or stumbled badly into equivalency."


The posts since then have NOT addressed explicitly whether these nations are equivalent or not. I say they're not, which is the basis of my arguments.

If you think they are equivalent, that is the unstated basis of your argument.

The successive posting and the to-ing and fro-ing back and froth are fruitless until you address the main point.