Jim:

Thank you for keeping up with your replies. I really disagree with you which makes you important to me!

In general, I find your amalgamation of phrases to not put together a coherent argument to my way of thinking. Starting with your last post, I'm going to go through it line by line, which I would term "untangling the spaghetti"

" how the use of napalm in Vietnam in 1971 relates to the death of Otto Warmbier yesterday."
They come out of the same stable
I disagree. Different countries, different times. Using the blandishment 'same stable' to me is lazy and quite inaccurate.

You cannot point to the behaviour of North Korea as an example of inhumanity and ignore the fact that The West has done and continues to do the same, the only difference being that one parcels up their inhumanity as "democratic" while the other doesn't

But I don't do that. I return, once more, to one of my favorite quotes about Communist versus Capitalist societies: "The difference between the Communist system and the capitalist system is that when they give you a kick in the ass, in the Communist system you have to applaud, in the capitalist system, you can scream."


As I said state terrorism and mass murder has nothing to do with systems - none of these events relate in any way to the behavior of the philosophies of the countries that are responsible - Communist or Capitalist - they are the acts of statesmen and politicians of all persuasions.

Once again, I disagree. The Nazis built Concentration camps on ethnic and religious grounds which killed millions. They had show trials. The Communists built concentration camps (Gulags) on class and political orthodoxy which killed millions. They had masses of show trials, and in the satellites countries as well, which did not have freely electd governments but were subservient to Moscow. The Communists under Stalin also moved masses of people on ethnic grounds. The Communists under Stalin also starved millions of people under forced collectivization. Mao starved millions of people as part of the Great Leap Forward. These were all leaders under whom there was no recourse. You had to applaud (Literally , in Stalin's case).

Even the Tsars didn't come close in damage and brutality to their own people. And the Tsars were no picnic.


What is going to be done?
The way our statesmen seems to be out of all our controls whatever system they operate under.
You chose to blame "communists" I believe not to be communists.
I choose to try and change the world by saying what I believe to be the case, as feeble as that may sound.

In all honesty, to me, you sound pretty feeble. You have swallowed dialectical materialism, the ersatz philosophy of Marxism. This involved the equivalent of Orwell's Newspeak along with Doublethink. In Orwell's 1984 he uses Newspeak as translating a passage of the American Declaration of Independence into the single word: "Crimethink." Dialectical Materialism was similar in that it defined the Capitalist term "profit" as "exploitation." Why argue with a concept when you can define it out of existence?


And the armies that are blasting their way through the Middle East to protect their oil flow look quite pretty in their uniforms look equally pretty
ANYTHING YOU CAN DO I CAN DO BETTER
TENDS TO PUT YOUR MAN IN NORTH KOREA IN THE SHADE, DON'CHA THINK?
These discussions are pointless unless they are put into context of what is done by our governments in our name

I am not saying that Western governments are pure as the driven snow, and without vile self interest, poorly and lethally applied. I AM saying that as bad as they are, we are allowed to scream, and you and i are PROOF of that!

I take it we've finished with the "antisemitic" bit?
Don't bother apologising, I've got used to that not happening when discussing with a certain type of person

Actually I meant to add to my last post that your comparing napalm in Vietnam in 1971 to Otto Warmbier in N. Korea this past year was as inappropriate and inaccurate as comparing Israel with Nazi Germany. You brought out references to other folks on the web, presumably Jewish and/or Israeli, making similar comparisons. I think you are not being discriminating. When those folks make the comparison, they are sounding a warning bell, that to their minds things are happening, things are being said, by Jewish Israelis that are reminiscent of Nazi Germany on its way to developing the means that resulted in "The Final Solution". But my understanding of your wording is that you claim Israel is there, basically gassing Arabs wholesale. I think this is extremist and not helpful to the discussion. Also, Israel is full of art and literature that involves multiple cultures and includes everything from hagiography to the most scathing of governmental criticism. Israel is working on a multicultural civilization. The dictatoraial governments of Gaza and the West Bank are mired in doctrine and despair. Self criticism of either Islam or the Palestinian government is punishable up to and including death, and usually does not involve trials.

For Example: It is not anti-semitic to go into a fair and open dialogue on what is meant by what the Old Testament calls, (with some justification), a "stiff-necked people". It IS antisemitic to make that your only arguing point and claim it is a racial indictment from God. (That preceding sentence is an example only and is NOT aimed at you personally, Jim).

"Stiff necked people" applies to many (if not all) peoples, and some people even take pride in the appellation.

Meanwhile, thanks for the book references. At this time I'm not promising to look them up as I've got a long reading list, but I will probably see if they are in the local library. Are YOU aware that "1984" and probably "Darkness at Noon" owe a lot to Zamyatin's "We"?