No you do not need to be told everything if at first you have been taught to think for yourself. What you do is observe and see the difference in what is said and what is done.

Maastricht: Maggie got us a rebate, which Blair then handed away a chunk of in a deal that required that the EU would reform it's CAP, we certainly lost that chunk of our rebate, did the EU reform it's CAP - did it F**K. The reason? because French "farmers" would object.

Budgets - tell me why the EU has not been able to sign off on audited accounts on it's expenditure since God knows when? After all we all have to do that every year, your local council has to do it every year, the company you work for has to do it every year, your Government has to do it every year - But somehow when it comes to the unelected EU Commission they mysteriously get a free pass.

By the way Shaw - The claim I was responding to was that "we" (The electorate) were misinformed and manipulated - my post asked for specifics which seem to have gone unanswered.

1: There was no promise on £350 million for the NHS - if that is the way you read it then you are simply a fool who does not understand plain English.

2: Has there been any sort of announcement on what rate of VAT will be levied in the UK post Brexit? Any claims by anyone at all that it will be scrapped? What the F**k do you think pays for the CAP hand-outs? The UK is the second largest net contributor to the EU's coffers after Germany. Which means Shaw that we put in (Through revenue raised by VAT) more than we get back, so if VAT remains the same and Government spending stays the same then whatever we got via EU payments can continue at the same level, plus there is a surplus. You stating, with what appears to be absolute certainty, what will happen and who will not get what at some point in the future is simple baseless, guesswork and scaremongering. Who are you trying to manipulate and misinform?

3: How many "refugees" are flooding into Europe each day Shaw? Blair & Co admitted that their "open door" policy was one of the biggest mistakes that they made (Among Many!!). Once in Europe Shaw and once registered in any EU country Shaw what do they become? We have no control over who gets into Europe, and as members of the EU we are compelled to obey the rules regarding free movement. The EU cannot close or control it's borders (Physical impossibility) - but we can we live on an island. Control over your borders means that you let in who you want in, who you need in. It seems pretty much a one way street according to the figures 3.2 million EU workers in the UK to 0.8 million UK citizens working throughout the other member states (Why is that Shaw? What is the attraction to working in the UK over working in other EU countries?). The UK Government has made a pretty clear and definite statement regarding the rights of EU citizens currently living and working in the UK - tell me Shaw what statements have the EU made about UK citizens living and working in the EU?

4: "You get promised that you'll get a really good trade deal that you won't get." - More guess work Shaw? You do not have the slightest inkling of what any future trade deal might be, so please do not insult our intelligence by trotting out definite statements on things you know absolutely nothing about. Trade is trade and here are the very well documented facts regarding trade between the UK and the rest of the EU:

a) The UK buys more from the EU than they buy from us. Under those circumstances who gets hurt most if there is no deal? Rhetorical question Shaw it's the EU - If there is no deal German car manufacturers take a 20% hit, damage the German economy and the EU is basically f**ked.

b) The UK is the world's fifth largest economy and the EU's second largest net contributor. That latter bit is important because it means when we leave, if EU funding is to be continued without cuts, somebody has to step in and make up the difference. Who is that going to be? Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and France are all precarious and are all Euro currency countries. It will be interesting to see how readily the French will take to President Macron's reforms - my guess is that they will not, just as they baulked at Hollande's.

c) At the moment the UK does more trade with the rest of the world than it does with the EU, especially when you hive off the "goods through Rotterdam" scam that falsely inflates our trade with the EU figures. It is easier for one single country to negotiate international trade deals than it is for a huge block as complex and as "protectionist" as the EU - ask Switzerland.

5: "You get promised a cheap brexit which you won't get because we'll get no deal at all unless we pay a huge exit fee." - More Shaw guess work - you haven't a clue - if agreement is not reached then it costs us nothing, we simply walk away. I do not think that that will happen because in truth the EU needs a deal as much as, if not more than, we do. Ever heard of mutual interest, or common sense for that matter Shaw?

6: "You get promised that winter fuel payments and the triple lock will get nobbled which you won't get because of a grubby deal with a bunch of sectarian backwoodsmen" - Means testing of "Winter fuel payments" did not appear in the Queen's Speech Shaw, neither did any mention of abandoning the triple lock on pensions. On the latter there was never ever any mention of OAP being reduced, the triple lock was based on:

a) Rate of inflation (Currently 2.9%)
b) Retail Price Index
c) Guaranteed 2.5%

What that last bit c) gives you is an ongoing ever increasing pension bill irrespective of whether the cost of living has gone up or not - that is unsustainable. If you drop that and inflation is 0 then why should pensions go up?

7: When the Labour Party wrote it's 2017 Election Manifesto it did so knowing that the Party did not have a snowball in Hell's chance of winning the election. The promises made although they claimed to be costed, were not. Jeremy Corbyn was, quite rightly ridiculed for having a magic money tree. The UK was going to have fund this had they won and implemented their promises. This "bung" you are talking about £1 billion over two years. Compare that to Corbyn's throw away of abolishing University Tuition Fees and cancelling Student debt that would amount to £35 billion + and then £35 billion a year thereafter, because let's face it Shaw somebody has to pay for education. Fully costed Manifesto my arse, the clowns didn't even factor in the cost of Brexit.

8: I have got news for you Shaw, something I learned from simple observation over the years. Since the advent and predominance of "professional politicians" on the political scene in the UK - Every political party acts solely in its own self-interest - you can bank on it - Labour is no different.