Actually, I am moving this request here from a previous Facebook search of a friend. Perhaps some mudcatters have something to add. - We know that it was a name of a pre-prohibition whiskey, but did the term predate the booze? - It seems to be a derogatory term. Here's what moves over when I copy and paste the original thread from Facebook. (There's probably a better way to do this) Scrolling through might get some Mudatter minds churning in other directions. Many thanks Benedict Gagliardi 21 hrs · Pardon my open discussion of this term if it turns out to be more offensive than I currently understand, but could anyone give me any details on the origins or background of the term/name 'Hiram Green'? It is used in a local song from Rhode Island about 'Old Kingston Jail' in the following rhyming couplet: "He's done his time at Wethersfield, Old Auburn he has seen, And he robbed the contribution box that slippery Hiram Green". Based on the context and preceding adjective, it does not come across as a flattering appellation. Marc Bernier verified that it is an outdated and obscure derogatory expression, but does anyone know where or who it comes from? Was it Rhode Island-specific or more widespread? Google searching does not produce much more than advertisements for a Dutch perfume company whose founder bears the same moniker... Thanks for any info. And I hope this curious question caused no offense. Like Comment 6Armand Dale Aromin and 5 others Comments Keith Barrette Keith Barrette Certainly seems like a name that shows up in a bunch of places: https://www.loc.gov/resource/ihas.200206435.0?st=gallery...See More Manage LOC.GOV How hiram green wrecked the submarine Like · Reply · 21h · Edited Heidi Slaney Heidi Slaney https://youtu.be/jUefPt2-Rec Manage YOUTUBE.COM Billy Murray - Hiram Green, Goodbye 1905… Like · Reply · 19h Michael Carbonneau Write a reply... Fanginel Lewis Fanginel Lewis I know that in some cultures, there are specific cultural characters who are created to be stupid, as the butt of a joke. Anansi the Spider, from just so stories, is a character who is stupid and mischievous at the same time (...See More Manage YOUTUBE.COM Anansi and the Pot of Beans (Animated Stories for Kids) Like · Reply · 21h Vasily Kondrashov Vasily Kondrashov I'd always had more the impression that Anansi isn't stupid so much as given easily to impulse. He can be very clever, but he's always tripped up by his greed or pursuit of pleasure. Manage Like · Reply · 20h Fanginel Lewis Fanginel Lewis Vasily Kondrashov I agree. He's a caricature. 1 Manage Like · Reply · 20h Michael Carbonneau Write a reply... Földi Krisztina Földi Krisztina Alan just did a 38 minute research and came in "ask me anything about hiram green". Manage Like · Reply · 21h · Edited Heidi Slaney Heidi Slaney Not quite sure this fits, but: http://www.sueoyna.com/folktale/folktale.php?id=170 Manage SUEOYNA.COM Folk tale : How Hiram Spent His Shrimp Money - Sueoyna.com Like · Reply · 20h Charlie Ipcar Charlie Ipcar That's a new "old one" to me! Manage Like · Reply · 20h Heather Livingston Heather Livingston seems like it was the name of a pre-prohibition whiskey 1 Manage Like · Reply · 20h Heather Livingston Heather Livingston "a quality blend in the low price field" https://www.ebay.com.au/.../OLD-WIDE.../223030636577... Manage EBAY.COM.AU OLD WIDE HIRAM GREEN WHISKEY AD Single Vintage Playing Card | eBay 1 Like · Reply · 20h Benedict Gagliardi Benedict Gagliardi wow. this name pops up everywhere. 1 Manage Like · Reply · 19h Mike Livingston Mike Livingston But was the whiskey named after a legendary person or vice versa? 1 Manage Like · Reply · 19h Heather Livingston Heather Livingston Right I was wondering that too; the whiskey goes back to at least the early 1900s. I also found a photo of two Iroquois men labeled "Hiram Green and Dancing Jack, 1904" with no other information. Manage Like · Reply · 19h Heather Livingston Heather Livingston I would assume in that case that the men were nicknamed derogatorily after the whiskeys. 1 Manage Like Like Love Haha Wow Sad Angry · Reply · 19h Michael Carbonneau Write a reply... Heidi Slaney Heidi Slaney Related to the song? https://picclick.ca/vintage-Postcard-1910-s-Hiram-Green... My best guess is that someone who was a Hiram Green was a rube.... a foolish man and a rake? Manage PICCLICK.CA VINTAGE POSTCARD 1910 s "Hiram Green Good Bye" Hot air Balloon. -… 1 Like · Reply · 19h Daniel Accardi Daniel Accardi Hm...Google Ngrams shows this as popping up in the corpus first around 1830, with a first big spike around 1880 and another near 1905. Use shot up again in the 1980s, which maybe has something to do with this perfume line that comes up when you google it? You could check out Punchinello, a satirical magazine printed in 1870; "Hiram Green" was one of several characters writing in opinionated letters to the editor (he was supposed to be an old man lately a Justice of the Peace in New York). You can read a few of them! (https://books.google.com/books?id=63otAQAAMAAJ...) More likely is the Marcia Schuyler Trilogy by Grace Livingston Hill (https://www.gracelivingstonhill.com/marcia-schuyler-trilogy). In the second novel, "Phoebe Deane", Hiram Green was the name of a dastardly neighbor attempting to secure himself an eligible bride, much to the chagrin of the protagonist. It's hard to tell precisely how popular or influential a given bit of culture was at any given time, but the book came out in 1909 - think it'd be reasonable to assume your song might've cribbed the villain's name for a timely reference? Given what others have dug up here, I wonder if the reference was intended to indicate he's a drunkard, particular to the whiskey brands in question. Manage BOOKS.GOOGLE.COM.PE Punchinello 1 Like · Reply · 19h · Edited Daniel Accardi replied · 3 Replies Dan Milner Dan Milner Never hoid da woid, as dey say in Brooklyn, Nu Yawk dat is. Manage Like · Reply · 16h Lynn Feingold Lynn Feingold Try asking Sheila Kay Adams, Elizabeth LaPrelle, and Judy Cook. I have a hunch this moniker was imported into Rhode Island from elsewhere. Manage Like · Reply · 16h Marc Bernier Marc Bernier For what it's worth, I too have done a fair amount of digging about since our initial conversation Ben. I can find absolutely nothing to substantiate my claim. Manage Like · Reply · 15h Alan Brown Alan Brown Wethersfield is probably a reference to the Connecticut State Prison there, the second state prison in the state of Connecticut. Used between 1827 and 1963. Manage Like · Reply · 11h Marc Bernier Marc Bernier Oh it definitely is. The State prison stood on the site that the Ct. State Motor Vehicle offices occupy today, or did 20 years ago when I lived there any way. I was once told that some of the DMV buildings were actually part of the original prison complex but I'm not buying that. Those buildings are newer than that. However the CT DoC does still have offices somewhere in that complex. 1 Manage Like · Reply · 11h Heidi Slaney Heidi Slaney Marc Bernier Heh. Pretty sure I’ve been to that one. Manage Like · Reply · 9h Michael Carbonneau Michael Carbonneau That DMV certainly can feel like a prison. :) 2 Manage Like · Reply · 9m Michael Carbonneau Write a reply...
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