well yes Burke, but I did try and resist singling Texas out with an "even in Texas" clause. Perhaps now they have got rid of their last Govenor there is hope even there.

Sorry, I shouldn't pick on Americans, we have just as many (in percentage terms) people in NZ who cannot see any contradiction in advocating the "right to life" for a foetus and the death penalty in the same breath.

Sorcha, I don't particularly want to open that topic again either since it is very rarely a debate, more a continuous statement of opposing views. However the thing that concerns me is the number of the pro gun lobby who base their case on their "rights". If those who wished to own guns, as I do, saw it as a privilidge they had to earn by a practical demonstration of both need and their capability to handle the responsibility, I believe both this kind of incident, and many tragic accidents would be greatly reduced. I'm not naive enough to think they will ever be totally prevented.

Pete M