What? you never heard of Nathan Hale, Colin Kelly, Rodger Young. King Leonidas of Sparta (Thermopylae) and his 900 other soldiers, Martyrs all, and suicides all.

And, the great Belisarius, who with his 200 houshold guards and 250 barbarian mercenaries, thought they were committing suiocide to give the emperor Justinian time to escape (the Nika rebellion in Constantinople) but instead caused the 10,000 rebels to panic and turn on eachother leaving Belisarius and 450 would be suicides for a cause and very surprised Roman soldiers looking at 10,000dead rebels.

And what about, "Todd" and the others who stopped the 4th Airliner, the one headed for D.C. who said "The Lord's Prayer", "Let's Roll" and jumped on a terrorist with a bomb strapped to hims knowing that he was committing suicide.

and, Oh! Yes, JESUS CHRIST.

And, who gives a shit, anyway, if the terrorists were gay?

And, Murray, this includes you, no one knows until the moment for action comes, whether or not they are willing to die for a cause.

I forgot, for the moment, that you're a Britt and probably never HAVE heard of the first batch of names, so allow me to mention "The Light Brigade" General Gordon and all of your parents and grandparents who stood alone against Adolph Hitler between 1939 and Dec. 1941 (when Colin Kelly died to save his crew) and thought that they very well might be committing suicide for the cause of freedom, for which I am eternally grateful.

Ah yes, the Wolfendon Report, in addition to decriminalizing homosexuality, chased all the "Ladies of the Night" away from the statue of Eros at Picadilly and indoors, over the strenuous objections of the Metropolitan Police and the CID who had been using the girls as informants and getting much help from them in combatting crime. I was stationed at RAF Lakenheath at the time and hung out (with my guitar and banjo) in Soho. when this disaster occurred.

Aw Hell, Murray, I've been known to start a row every now and then, myself, including a very controversial thread in the Mudcat. Good on you, Pal.

All the best

Jody Gibson