Joe Offer - Aww! Ya caved! Put it back in Music!! // NONONO jes' kiddin' Mr Joe. {Wuttsa mattah fuh yoo; yer not Pleasin' all o' da Peoples all o' da Time, here. Hop to it wouldyez :}

Now, Larry. (Sorry timelag) - "...as to Sadam invading Kwait... I don't know about you, but I am not a Kawaite, in fact, if I was and you were, as not a member of the ruling elete there, we'd likely be slaves." Well, "slaves" is a bit hyperbolic; but Yeah, & I'm no fan of His Heinie the Emir, believe me. However: one need not be a Kuwaiti to acknowledge that when Saddam attacked, seeking to annex, that sovereign (albeit monarchical) nation, a then-unanimous UN Security Council legally authorized coalition forces, led by us, to repel the invaders under international law. And, that the conclusion of those hostilities entailed Hussein's binding commitment to meet certain conditions, which he has not done, in 12 long years. (The problem now -- and it IS a big one in my view because I do believe in internationalism -- is that the Nations are no longer United.)

"Fact is, the new American concevatives are not concervatives at all, but reactionaries who are playing fast and easy with the elimental rights that define us as a people." I completely agree, which is why I oppose the excesses of Ashcroft & Co. Understand, I am not a new American conservative (neoCon). Hell, I'm not even an OLD American conservative (paleoCon), though admittedly I USED to be one, long ago, circa Goldwater. (I didn't say I'm not Old; just not Conservative.:) But, even we liberals can oppose murderous fascistic tyrants who at the moment happen to be brutalizing countries other than our own. In fact, ESPECIALLY we liberals should oppose them. (See Elie Wiesel's recent statement re Iraq.)

"You claim that these are new times." Yeah, sadly, I do; & I think I'll stand by that particular claim. Hard to refute.

"...If American rights could survive the war against hitler, I expect they can servive any struggle against sadam husain..." Again I agree, with both the expectation & the implicit moral equivalence. (Incidentally, *Hitler* didn't directly attack the U.S. either. Hirohito did. Oh sure, Germany declared War on us after we did against their ally Japan following Pearl Harbor; but still, did we *really* Give Peace A Chance with ol' Adolf? Exhaust all the diplomatic avenues? Y'know, like France did?? / Hm, yeah, I think so too.) But as to American rights surviving, we must be vigilant against Ashcroft's extreme domestic agenda, as well as against Saddam's & (distinctly) Osama's transnational ones. For, ultimately, the same reason: preservation of liberty.

"...I am reminded of American concervatives telling me love it or leave it,..." I would never tell you, or anyone, that. And, neither would a *true* conservative. (Granted, an endangered species these days.)(Hi, Doug R. Howareya?:)

- TransIdeological Pooka