The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #61462   Message #1014821
Posted By: IanC
08-Sep-03 - 12:17 PM
Thread Name: Origins: A methodology for dating songs etc.
Subject: The Black Velvet Band V – Some Conclusions

Setting up a Chronological Sequence The Black Velvet Band V – Some Conclusions.

I've tried to show, here, how it might be possible to set up a simple model of the development of a song. So far it's quite simple and unlikely to be the complete picture. One important feature, however, is that it's possible to test it by pointing out ways in which it does not fully fit the picture. New versions can be matched to the existing sequence. If they fit, then they will provide us with information about how the song developed. If not, they may be the basis of a completely different and more accurate model. Nothing is wasted.

You may have noticed that I've said nothing about other aspects like the localisation of the song. This is because I don't believe that internal evidence alone can help with these things. We all know of songs (like "Cockles and Mussels" - based in Dublin, written by a Scotsman for the London music hall) where an "obvious" provenance can lead us up the garden path. The original location in Barking was obviously not well known to a worldwide audience and the temptation to give it a better location probably led to London in a number of versions. I'm happy to speculate that the location to Belfast occurred quite early on because of the singer's use of the phrase "apprentice boy" (reminiscent, for a number of reasons, of Belfast or Derry). One of the two "Belfast" versions also mentions "Broadway", a place which does not exist in Belfast. The "Tralee" version is clearly a more straightforward localisation (it was collected in the locality) but I'm already of the opinion that this is a fairly late (though before 1936!) rewrite.

One thing I can say is that this song has a strong relationship with seagoing people and seaports. Peter Kennedy collected it from Bill Cameron in 1956. Bill was a Scilly lifeboatman who got it from Tommy Crocker, member of a mail boat crew (evidence from the 1901 census suggests, by the way, that Tommy was born in Surrey). Cyril Poacher learnt his version in the 1950s from Alf Moseley of Harwich when the latter took his summer holidays in Blaxhall (again, evidence from the 1901 census suggests that Alf was born in a neighbouring village, which is why he took his holidays there) and Harry Cox also got quite a few of his songs from Norfolk sailors. One of the three Australian versions was collected in Sydney, and all the places mentioned in the song, with the exception of Tralee (4 miles from the sea) are ports.

I hope this has proved worthwhile. I've certainly learned a lot while I've been doing it!

:-)
Ian