The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #62533   Message #1015142
Posted By: Nerd
08-Sep-03 - 10:17 PM
Thread Name: Uilleann Pipes
Subject: RE: Ullean Pipes
Well, sorefingers, looks like your ranting isn't convincing anyone.

One question: on what basis do you assume that I can't read French, Spanish, Latin, Irish and German? That would be dangerous in this case. (I will admit that I need a dictionary on hand to get through Irish and German) In the land where I live, to have a Ph.D. in most humanities disciplines already requires you to learn two other languages. Then there are the ones you need for your own research.

Your inarticulate sputtering thus:

et ..Who to design? Where the middle class ....live in what ...

could be answered: an instrument-maker clearly designed the pipes; there has been a middle class in Ireland for centuries, living in towns such as Dublin, Cork and Limerick (perhaps you've heard of them?), as well as on estates with small holdings. And they live in houses and other such structures.... Not so hard to answer, really. It almost sounds as if you believe Ireland was entirely made up of rural peasants. There were other people there, you know.

Believe it or not, hoss, "you know more than I" is grammatically correct, and "you know more than me" is gramatically wrong. Because the "I" is the subject of the ustated verb "know"; in other words, "you know more than I know" or "you know more than I do."

Of course, in this case apparently, "you know LESS than I" would be more accurate.

"You know more than me," by the way, would mean "you know me and you also know some other things besides me."

As to the rest of your post, it is incoherent rubbish. It's easy to say you don't believe me, but unless you actually present some evidence it won't convince your own dog.

So, Sorefingers, Hoss, just pony up. Where is the evidence? Provide a citation to reputable research that shows bagpipes in Ireland before the thirteenth century.

As for evidence to the contrary, one could start with some of the first descriptions of Irish music by Giraldus Cambrensis, the Welsh cleric who visited Ireland in 1183, 1185, and 1199. He was particularly impressed by Irish harping. He saw no evidence of pipes in Ireland (or in Scotland) at that time, but knew of them from Wales (though it is hard to know from his Latin if he meant bagpipes or more simple, mouth-blown pipes). The bagpipes are never mentioned in the early Irish vernacular literature. There are no pictorial or artistic representations of bagpipes in early Irish carvings or manuscripts. So where is all this evidence, sorefingers? Do I really need to learn my history, or is it you with a shaky grasp on things?