Martin, you're just being silly about the immaculate conception thing by insisting on interpreting it as a literal, physical concept. It could have meant any number of other things than that. For instance, I heard a rather wise man say once: "All conception is immaculate." and I understood at once what he meant by saying that. Do you?

Even if all conception were not immaculate (which it probably is)...any physical, biological conception done in an immaculate CONSCIOUSNESS (state of mind) would be immaculate (not negative or unclean in any way). There is nothing necessarily non-immaculate about having physical sex! (despite the pernicious efforts of generations of prudish people and sick churches to convince everyone to the contrary and make them think that both sex and the body are dirty and evil)

brucie: The concept of "trinity" is merely one way (and a rather good one) of looking at any particular system of unity. For instance, a human being can be looked at as a trinity of body, mind, and spirit...or body, emotional self, and logical self...or solid, fluid, and air...or head, trunk, and limbs...etc.

A single divine being can also be looked at in 3 aspects...or 4 aspects...or 7 aspects...or 12 aspects...or 10,000 aspects...and "God" has been looked at in all those ways by various organized religions. Just pick the way(s) that suit you, that's all...if "trinity" doesn't suit you...well, okay. It's just one formal way of looking at the concept of a divinity, and it's one of many ways. Where people err is in assuming that their favourite way of describing God is the BEST or the ONLY way. Not so!

The Earth itself can be looked at as a trinity of earth, water, and sky...or as a quartet of earth, water, fire, and air. All these modes work fine, and they also serve to awaken keener awareness and understanding in people.

But trinity is VERY important in our reality, and I'll tell you why: because we live in a THREE-Dimensional reality, that's why!

The most important and basic thing is Unity, the number 1. The next most basic thing is Duality, the number 2. We see duality everywhere in life. The next most basic thing is Trinity, the number 3, and we see that everywhere too, but have to look just a little harder, because it's more complex than Duality. The next most basic thing is a division of four, and we see many of those too... here's an obvious one: North, South, East and West. Here's another one: Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall.

And one more obvious trinity: Mother, Father, and Child. It is that trinity, I think, which is basic to the Judeo-Christian faiths, but they were so relentlessly patriarchal that they altered "Mother" into a genderless "Holy Spirit" instead. The Christ was clearly the Child.

That's where the trinity really comes from....father, mother, and child. The Catholic Church tried to compensate for the lack of an official female aspect of God in their official trinity by sanctifying Mary...and in so doing they were also appeasing the pre-Christian peoples in Europe to whom the Goddess had been vitally important...equally as important as the male God figure. The pre-Christians were, in that way, closer to the truth.

Mary was a sort of politically inspired Catholic replacement for the ancient Earth Goddess, but the official trinity of Christendom should already have included the Mother anyway, quite regardless of Mary.

It's a very flawed religion that puts 95% of its emphasis on male aspects of reality, and leaves the other 5% for female ones. It takes an even balance of the two to make this creation.

- LH

p.s. I am a male, as I think most of you know by now. At least, I am this time around... :-) (Past lives, that's another thing.) I recommend either mode of existence, male or female, highly. They're both great in some ways, difficult in others, and therein lies the spice of the whole thing.