The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #65802   Message #1088117
Posted By: GUEST,Teribus
07-Jan-04 - 03:20 PM
Thread Name: BS: Book'em, Bush'o
Subject: RE: BS: Book'em, Bush'o
OK Peg, to put it in a simpler more direct way

1. Prior to 911 had there been any terrorist attacks in the USA, were there any fatalities/injuries as a result of those attacks?

Yes there have been (WTC Bomb to name but one)

2. Subsequent to 911 have there been any terrorist attacks in the USA, were there any fatalities/injuries as a result of those attacks?

No there has not. Have any been prevented? Yes - all well documented and reported.

3. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility for the attacks of 911.

4. As far as has been reported NOBODY, be it individual or organisation, homegrown, or foreign, has claimed responsibility for the anthrax incidents. But, incidentally, one thing "those paranoid imperialistic thugs who make up the Homeland Security office" did determine about those incidents was that they had absolutely nothing to do with Iraq, or Saddam Hussein, and that they did report.

5. Measures taken to improve the level of security in the US? In addition to what has been discussed in this thread - Plenty.
- Tightening up of security worldwide, but with particular emphasis on airports and air travel.
- Increase in personal awareness through advice and those alert notices you so readily dismiss as "scare-mongering".
- Vastly improved co-operation between law enforcement agencies and intelligence organisations throughout the world.
- World-wide implementation of new IMO Code ISPS which checks cargoes, ports and shipping for all goods being shipped to US ports. For the vessels this code forms part of the ship's SOLAS certification, i.e. if it does not comply the ship is considered as unseaworthy.

6. As for, "if there are any "successful" terrorist attacks from here on in, your claim that America is now safer than before will be shown to be erroneous." What kind of fools logic is that? Believe me Peg, there will be further attempted terrorist attacks and inevitably some will be successful, but those carrying out those attacks will have had to work a damn sight harder in order to succeed because of the measures being put into place now. Following your apparent preferred course of action subsequent to 911 I can think of at least 15 aircraft that would have been shot down or blown up.

7. As for you not saying that the present conditions under which live being the worst domestic terrorism you have ever encountered. Please explain - Peg 06 Jan 04 - 12:12 PM "I call this domestic terrorism of the worst sort."

8. That you IYOP do not feel safer does not alter the reality that there are more measures, routines and practices in place, specifically geared for your protection from foreign attack than at anytime in the history of your country. They are not perfect, they are not ideal, they may very well be undesirable, but they are necessary, they are better than doing nothing and they are better than what was in place before - but most importantly they are not permanent.

9. Your economy is far from "tanking", at the moment it is one of the most vibrant on the world scene. As for the alert code system, well there is absolutely no way to win on that as if the general public are advised on changes in alert status the administration is guilty (in your eyes) of scare-mongering, and if they don't they are guilty of keeping the people in the dark and denying them a choice. I prefer that alert code changes are announced it allows people to make up their own minds and might just act as a deterrent.

10. Population of the USA, some 270-280 million people? How many, or what percentage of that number, have been arrested, detained and strip-searched without cause because of the application of additional powers under the banner of Homeland Security? How many suspects are pulled in by the police in the normal performance of their duty (i.e. no Homeland Security connection) and are subjected to the same sort of treatment? I believe that if compared the numbers would not have suddenly escalated dramatically. I believe that the numbers would have hardly altered at all.

11. The "fucking world" that I live in, to use your expression, is one that for the major part of the last thirty years has been subject to indiscriminate terrorist attacks funded and supported by the drunken plastic paddies, resident in your fair land, who all thought it was a bit of a joke - well they all know it's a bit different now. Welcome to the rest of the world.

12. Irrespective of how much you like to whine and bemoan your lot. The fact is that you are still fortunate enough to reside in a country that is a damn sight freer than a hell of a lot of places on this globe. If you doubt that then just compare your rights and freedoms (in a country under attack), to those of an active member of the MDC in Zimbabwe (under Mugabe).

13. I "seem to relish the idea that this is the destiny of humanity: to be bound in chains and treated like dog turds." Where on earth do you get that idea from? Mind you it is a terrific example of a typical lefty-rant when all reason's lost - totally irrelevant and over dramatic.

14. Regarding those being held at Guantanamo. Their status is illegal combatants or something like that. Even had they been classified as POW's as required under the terms of the Geneva Convention, which they couldn't be, as the US did not declare war on Afghanistan, its Government, or its people. Those prisoners would not be subject, or entitled to any rights under the U.S. legal system; legal counsel; access to foreign embassies or consulates. They would be entitled to visits and access to the IRC/RC.

15. "All prisoners are presumed innocent until proven guilty." That presumption applies to some codes relating to criminal law in some countries. As such, it has no bearing in this instance whatsoever. Those detained are part of an organisation who were indoctrinated and urged by their leaders to kill all Americans, irrespective of who, or what those Americans were. These detainees will be interrogated and examined until they have revealed all they know and released when considered no longer likely to be a threat. Current reports are that about 150, of the 660-odd are about to be released shortly.