The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #974   Message #1092462
Posted By: Joe Offer
14-Jan-04 - 02:19 AM
Thread Name: Origins: Grand Old Duke of York
Subject: RE: Grand Old Duke of York lyrics
Would you believe that this song made it into the Traditional Ballad Index?
-Joe Offer-

Noble Duke of York, The

DESCRIPTION: "Oh, the Noble Duke of York, He had (ten) thousand men, He marched them up to the top of the hill And he marched them down again. And when they were up, they were up, And when they were down they were down...."
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1894 (Gomme)

KEYWORDS: army nonballad
FOUND IN: US(SE)
REFERENCES (2 citations):
BrownIII 99, "The Duke of York" (1 text)
Silber-FSWB, p. 390, "The Noble Duke of York" (1 text)

ST FSWB390B (Full)
Roud #742

Notes: Since the Dukedom of York is usually bestowed upon the Prince of Wales's oldest brother, or other fairly senior prince, there have been a lot of them in history, and many of them important. This makes it hard to guess which Duke of York (if any) might be the subject of this little satire. I've seen suggestions over the years, but not one was convincing enough for me to remember it.
The standard suggestion seems to be that it was Frederick Augustus (1763-1827), second son of George III, who was made a soldier in spite of a clear lack of ability in this department. But I can imagine candidates going back all the way to Richard, Duke of York from 1415.
(The Shakespeare characterization of that York, it should be noted, is all wrong. He *was* rightful King of England, but he never sought the throne until Margaret of Anjou forced him to do so. Hence a sufficiently anti-Lancastrian partisan could have mocked him for his hesitation.)
Gomme describes this as the music for a game, "Find the Ring." - RBW
File: FSWB390B


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The Ballad Index Copyright 2005 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


Here's the entry from the Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore, Volume III, Folk songs:

Notes: This old English singing game or jingle (Gomme I 121-2, Halliwell 12, Northall 98-9) is known everywhere, especially to college students. It is recorded as a traditional song in Pennsylvania and North Carolina; otherwise collectors haven not thought it worth while to report it.

"The Duke of York," contributed by the Misses Holeman of Durham in July, 1922.