Hey, Boab:

Thank you for the wonderful, thoughtful post. I have a son who is agnostic who I believe still has an open mind and heart. There are actually two Jesus's. One is on the pages of the book called the Bible. You can read all about him. The other Jesus is the one in my heart, and those who have come to know him as real, because they have a personal relationship with him. For those who know Jesus as being as real as this keyboard, there is no desire for reward for doing his Father's will. If you've had a wonderful friend, or family member, wife, husband or lover, you have a taste of what it is to know Jesus, and whether he fed a crowd of 5,000 with three fishes or 28 with 7 fishes is not the question. When you feel the love of someone, you want to give back to them, in return. The desire to do well is not for reward. It is done out of thanksgiving for what you have been given. Besides, you cannot earn your way into a presence with God after death. If you could, then there would have been no reason for Christ to die on the cross. God could just have said... "Go ahead, earn your own salvation, and good luck." And the doors of heaven could be welded shut.

Whether people believe in a Heaven were you wear golden slippers and streets of gold, have wings and play a harp (most of which isn't even in the bible) is not the issue either. Eternity and life after death is a tad difficult to fathom, so some people conceptualize it into something knowable for them.

As for miracles, I don't have to read about them in the bible. I see them, and not through hypnotists or magicians. I see miraculous cures
that defy any explanation, like the Mother of a friend of mine who went completely blind in one eye, saw every specialist in the area and was told her problem was inoperable and that she would never see out of that idea. She is a woman of great faith, and kept praying for a miracle. The day that she went in for a check-up and read the eye chart with her "blind" eye was not a story in a book, handed down orally for 60 years before someone wrote it down. It happened a year ago, and she came to hear my gospel quartet at our annual Anniversary concert, her sight miraculously restored.

The difference between faith and belief (and they are sometimes used interchangeably) is that you have faith in a power greater than yourself, and you trust that power with your life, while belief is something you think is true. There have to be clearer dictionary definitions than that, but I don't live my life according to Webster.
I have faith in God because in my mind and heart I know he is real. I don't just "believe" he's real. I feel His presence and see Him working in my life and others.

These discussions are wonderful, and I am really enjoying reading about everyone's faith. If this thread was titled Belief, then we could all argue about how many fishes Christ fed the multitudes, or whether he actually walked on water. Or whether there is such a thing as reincarnation, and what heaven looks like. Those arguments are not meaningful in the long run, because you can't get someone to have faith by arguing with them. And they aren't at the heart of the issue. Faith is one on one, or nothing. It's not something you can give to someone else. It profoundly changes the way that you live. Not all people who "get" religion get Faith. Faith is evidenced in a person by their fruits. "Belief" doesn't necessarily change you, but faith does. I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow, but that doesn't change who I am or the way that I live.

Sorry for being so long-winded, Boab. I didn't start this thread as a forum for talking about my own faith. I really am interested in hearing about others... including you. Your posting was just so thought-provoking that I was moved to respond to it at length.

Jerry