ummmm...wow! I have been answered. As a poor, slow typist, I cringe at the task of replying to all that point by point, and today is full of tasks that preclude detailed responses.

I will, however, say a couple of things.

Amos...I am startled at your reply about James Randi's motives. You seem to accuse him of engaging in charlatanism hardly better than that which he seeks to expose! It is almost as if you are saying he really knows better, but doesn't care, or won't look at the truth. I sure would like to get HIS response to such an assertion.

"he must be aware that this impulse to convince people they are non-spiritual in nature is harmful, not to say despicable." At WHAT level? From the syntax of the statement, I gather that this is what you believe. Do I, in my ramblings above, fall into the same class of willful deceivers as Randi? Or am I exempt because I don't have a website and foundation? Should *I* know better?

Two Bears....I hardly know where to begin, and as I say, time is limited....but in all your detailed replies (which are NOT what I was seeking), I see one theme repeated.."I, Two Bears, have seen and experienced much of the phenomena you refer to, and I state that they work!"........You also state that you used to feel otherwise, BEFORE certain experiences, so presumably you know what it feels like for those of us who are not privileged to have such experiences. *little wry smile*

about Randi...I think I read on his site that the $$$$ IS in escrow! I will go read some more.
Your two examples of others challenging Randi are very brief and don't exactly clarify what was at issue and what Randi's response was...and whay the outcome was. As to Kirilan photography....I will later look up what I can find on it..(I know the 'basic' claims)..and I will wager that I can find as many de-bunking explanations of it as supportive claims FOR it....just a hunch.

re: your note to LH at the end..." 1. To the person that is a debunker (Don't bother me with the facts; my mind is made up); no amount of proof is adequate." ....isn't that what BOTH sides say, with "debunker" changed to "adherent" to suit the circumstances? *grin*

For my own part, I certainly DO have standards and levels of proof that *I* would consider adequate, but I suspect that you would say that I am 'asking the wrong questions' or 'measuring by different standards' or something. I am almost 65 now, and have tried hard for 50 of those years to HAVE the experiences YOU claim to have had.....I think my aura tangled with my karma at some point and relegated my inner conciousness to spiritual Limbo....which is about 57 miles S.E. of Wichita, Kansas.