Two Bears....I hardly know where to begin, and as I say, time is limited....but in all your detailed replies (which are NOT what I was seeking), I see one theme repeated.."I, Two Bears, have seen and experienced much of the phenomena you refer to, and I state that they
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    I HAVE have many weird and unexplainable encounters.

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work!"........You also state that you used to feel otherwise, BEFORE certain experiences, so presumably you know what it feels like for those of us who are not privileged to have such experiences. *little wry smile*
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    I used to be EXACTLY like you demanding proof; but when one has an OBE, and has experiences that defy description; it changes you.

    Though we disagree regarding paranormal experiences; I DO understand where you are coming from.

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about Randi...I think I read on his site that the $$$$ IS in escrow! I will go read some more.
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    It may be in escrow now; but it was not that way when Sylvia Browne and Evelyn Paglini agreed to be tested, and the Unamazing Randi blew a gasket.

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was...and whay the outcome was. As to Kirilan photography....I will later look up what I can find on it..(I know the 'basic' claims)..and I will wager that I can find as many de-bunking explanations of it as supportive claims FOR it....just a hunch.
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    Oh there are debunkers of Kirlian photography regarding the image of a cut leaf, and a ghost image of the missing half of the leaf shows up. If someone has the skill to remove the leaf and cut the leaf in half and put the half leaf EXACTLY where it has been before, or someone was able to cut the leaf on the plate without moving the half leaf even one milimeter from where the leaf was in the previous image; then that person should be a neuro surgeon.

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re: your note to LH at the end..." 1. To the person that is a debunker (Don't bother me with the facts; my mind is made up); no amount of proof is adequate." ....isn't that what BOTH sides say, with "debunker" changed to "adherent" to suit the circumstances? *grin*
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    No. Unlike the debunkers; I and other experiences do not ask that you or other people take our word for it.


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For my own part, I certainly DO have standards and levels of proof that *I* would consider adequate, but I suspect that you would say
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    This reminds me of the young man that goes to visit the Medicine man of the village. The old Medicine man started talking of the Great Spirit, and using manitou to heal others (Manitou is the Osage Indian name for lifeforce energy. (Chinese call this energy ch'i)). The young man interjected and said "I don't believe in God." the old medicine man says "That's OK. He doesn't believe in you either."

    My suggestion is for you to open your heart and mind, and start working with universal lifeforce energy, and either prove or disprove it to yourself.

    I wrote the material on the website http://geocities.com/huna101. If that does not appeal to you; then study Qigong, Reiki, Actualism www.actualism.org, etc.