In the hope that there are people who want to discuss things in an open way leading to understanding, let me respond to two people who I greatly respect, one of whom I pursue relentlessly through the cyber hills and dales ****GRIN****. That would be Penny and Alison, otherwise known as THE FAIR ONE.

I am sure you have heard the term "on the square". It is used to describe someone who says words that say one thing, but the agenda is different. Such as "kidding on the square" where we act like we are just kidding when we really meant to be mean. I found the comments made by Conrad to be "on the square". While he professes to be talking about both sides, his only attacks or jabs were at Republicans. He mentions nothing about the sources of funds that the loyalist militia's get, talks about Irish Americans as if they are just poor eejits completely unaware of the real truth, and talks about showing all sides music and then only cites a Unionist/Loyalist/Orange site. Then he chastises Yanks for only singing in the Republican tradition. In other words, his agenda shows through his poor attempt at appearing to discuss in an intelligent fashion. And by the way, Sir, no one here is throwing stones at the music of the Orange tradition which makes your first comment gratuitous. Your second comment also demonstrates that you are not serious about understanding, just painting a picture that makes you seem more than you are.

As a scholarly exercise, the singing of the music of both sides is fine. But, IMHO, it is best done with both sides singing there own. The music was born of the events and injustices, both perceived and real, and must be sung with the passion of those that believe in the cause.

Last comment, ..........context is hard to see here so let me give you mine. I have great respect for seekers of understanding. They approach things in a way which fosters constructive change. In my "day job" I often see management types who drop the slogans and seek to understand the employees motivations for their actions. These are people for whom I have great respect. I also see, far more often, management types who can't get past their set perceptions, spout the same old rhetoric, and could give a shit about the ee's. I battle these with a will and a passion, and they hate me. The analogy applies here. Those who seek to understand, and look towards a better future such as Penny and Alison and others, I respect mightily and will do my best to pass on what I know and try to understand their positions. The others who use thinly disguised comments to promote an agenda, I suffer these lightly.

Mick