this was an inspiring and sustaining thread. it helped me.

Amos and Wolfgang, your intellectual rigour and thirst for objectivity is admirable.

but that wasn't what this thread was about, and i miss the beginnings of this thread, which were beautiful, insightful, helped me.. with limited ideas like cultivating patience and hope, both attributes close to faith, which i don't have, or understanding.. understanding that there is a wider perspective, a new day, a positive outlook.

objectivity, empirical evidence, yes, fine and interesting topics for debate, which have helped move us away from crippling supstition and religious manipulation.

BUT

this was a thread about faith.

i have faith that somewhere, another thoughtful thread will rise up to replace this one.

and just to throw a pebble in the pond

i believe in and have perceived and experienced in lucky moments, an intelligent universe in which each atom of existence is unified, aware, and conscious.

and this was a joyful experience.

i don't expect anyone who hasn't experienced this to believe it, that would be irrational.

however, i would say to them, don't argue, go and learn some meditation, spend a couple of decades practising it, and you will learn another kind of intellectual rigour and objectivity - the art of becoming objective and detached from your own self. it is then that you experience the higher self.

best wishes

freda