Bluey: The agreement between us is much greater than the disagreement. I totally agree that the troops, as individuals, deserve our total support and admiration. There is a distinction between that and giving total (and unqualified) support to "the army", but I don't think it's useful to debate it further. And - re: your remarks about politicians vs military leaders; one reason the recent Balkans intervention turned into such a humanitarian disaster was that the politicians - having decided it was necessary to take action - would not listen to the military about what sort of action was necessary if we were to achieve an end, or at least a rapid reduction, to the suffering in that region. The military were - not for the first time - placed in an invideous position by the politicians wanting to "please all the people all the time".

Ferret: I don't accept the "prepare for war" argument, and I disagree that it's as simple as going "down the path of appeasement"; we've too often "spoken tought" and then not been prepared to do anything when those we've spoken to have laughed in our faces; and we've followed the economically favourable (to us!) route without consideration of the morality of those we are supplying. And though I agree, to a greater or lesser extent, with much of the rest of your article, the reason for the UN's poor record (of doing nothing until it is too late) is that it cannot do anything except by the will of its key memebers. Thus the US can drive it into a war in Iraq which almost certainly breaks its own charter and international law, while the UN itself is powerless to enforce its good intentions elsewhere. And - if we take the Balkans fiasco - is obliged to accept an intervention which was also almost certainly illegal and mind-blowingly ineffective.

Darwin Chris: I can only say "thank heavens" for those millons of ordinary Australians (and, actually, I still believe the "ordinary people" are far more ready to accept our humanitarian responsibilities to one another, across national boundaries, than politicians give them credit for). And every good fortune in your own endeavours.

And everyone else - thanks for an intellegent and rewarding thread.

G.