The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #69112   Message #1170726
Posted By: GUEST
25-Apr-04 - 06:48 PM
Thread Name: BS: Should Kerry Take Communion?
Subject: RE: BS: Should Kerry Take Communion?
You know, it is pretty common knowledge among Catholic types that John Kerry isn't exactly the world's best Catholic. He misspoke recently, and referred to the main architect of Vatican II reforms of the church, Pope John XXII, as Pope Pius XXIII. Some would say it was a bit of a freudian slip, others say, that Kerry is such a bad Catholic he really doesn't know: a) there was no Pius XXII, and; b) he had bugger all to do with Vatican II.

Next, I threw out the line above about if you were an important enough man in the church, you could get your marriage annuled. The name I threw out was Kennedy. Apparently Mudcat is a predominantly Protestant derived chat forum. Don't any of you know about Kerry's very controversial relationship with the church, especially the more enlightened Catholic women of the church? No, eh? Well, heads up people.

US Sen. John Kerry and US Rep. Joseph Kennedy, both sought and received annulments of their first marriages, and their cases bear striking similarities. Both men's ex-wives are not Catholic and both women opposed the annulments, calling the process hypocritical.
Both men had been married for years, and had children as a result of the marriage.

Now then, the Church teaches that annulments do not invalidate the legitimacy of children and only recognizes that the couple was incapable of validly performing the sacrament of marriage. Which, when you go through the church wedding the first time, and are recognized by your Catholic community as living within the sanctity of that union for years, born children, etc etc it would seem pretty iron clad that at the time of your first marriage, you were not only capable of validly performing the sacrament, but did.

Hence, the controversy. It royally pisses off a whole lot of Catholic women, and non-Catholic women married to Catholic men, that this sort of thing could actually happen in this day and age.

Now, why would John Kerry and Joe Kennedy seek annulments? Because their second wives ARE Catholic, and want a Catholic wedding, children of the marriage baptised Catholic, etc etc.

Hypocritical? You bet. In my view, that pretty much makes those guys scum on a personal level, in addition to being hypocrites. And their lovely second wives too. If you are a powerful male Irish Catholic politician, especially one from Massachusetts, you can pretty much have your attorney write up the annulment, mail it to the archidiocese, and have the sucker rubber stamped.

And what rights do your first wife have in this process? Need you ask? Women don't have such rights in the Catholic church, period. Joe Kennedy's ex was so appalled and angry about it, she wrote a book and began a movement to bring attention to this horrendous, medieval practice. But hey--Mrs. Heinz-Kerry is a happy camper!

Now, to clear up this excommunication thing. The short, simple answer to what being excommunicated from the Catholic church means: it means you are no longer able to receive communion, but that is meant to mean the benefits of the Catholic community, not all of the sacraments of the Catholic church, because even if you are excommunicated, you are still considered to be Catholic because the efficacy of your baptism can't ever be overturned by any Catholic authority. An excommunicate is considered an exile from Christian society and as non-existent, for a time at least, in the sight of ecclesiastical authority.

So, in the practical, every day sense of Catholic community, what that means is you cannot be administered any of the sacraments of the church until you redeem yourself. So, you can't attend mass, or receive any of the sacraments. So excommunication doesn't deprive just of communion, but of all the other sacraments as well.

Catholics view the seven sacraments to be the ritualized, outward ceremonies that represent our inward grace and sanctification in christ. The seven sacraments are: baptism, confirmation, communion, matrimony, penance, extreme unction, and holy orders. For those of you who are confused by those terms, the roughly work out to mean: penance = confession; extreme unction = last rites; holy orders = the ritual of becoming a priest, nun, etc on up the hierarchy.

So, the question of whether Kerry should receive communion because of his publicly stated belief on abortion, isn't really legitmate and is a bit of a non-starter, as they say. On the other hand, the fact that he had his first marriage annuled in order to remarry in the church could conceivably hurt him both with Catholics and with women, in the general election, if someone decides to make an issue of it.

My guess is, since Rove hasn't used it yet, is that it is in Rove's October arsenal.