Well, brucie, of course I could have mentioned lots of other unpleasant people who have gone in for torture. My point was to pick out a couple of other liberal democracies who have gone down that road - it's not just an American thing. It's an easy road to go down, and there is always a tendency to try to present it as just being a rogue element out of control that does the dirty stuff.

And of course there are instances of unlicensed brutality in any war - but that is something different. (Though cover-ups and collusion are likely to come into play here.)