Frank: A small clarification; when I said we can't redefine folk into "the context of modern western civilisation" I meant that to imply that there ARE still cultures where Folk is live, well and ongoing; i.e. I agree entirely with the point you made.

And - unusually for a discussion verging on "what is folk" I don't think we're going round in circles to no point; certainly I'm finding each loop of the spiral turns up new points of interest and new questions to ponder.

James: I'd say Mudcat already includes all the music that any mudcatter feels inclinded to talk about here. But I think it's vitally important to recognise Folk music (in all its variety) in its own right. To me that importance is far more sociological than musical (if only because the variety of folk music makes it impossible to define Folk music in purely musical terms). It matters enormously to me that the people who history effectively ignores can produce a vibrant, compelling and richly diverse music. THEY deserve that we continue to recognise their contribution to our culture.

G.