The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #72139   Message #1241007
Posted By: Bill Hahn//\\
05-Aug-04 - 08:29 PM
Thread Name: BS: Explaining Americans.
Subject: RE: BS: Explaining Americans.
I am moved, touched, and feel a real kinship to Don Firth. Our situations---and many other's too, I suspect, are similar. It all comes down to values--which Kerry and Bush still have not defined other than say---"values".

Other than having a helpful second income from your wife, Don F, (mine passed away a number of years ago) we are--as the song says---in the same boat brother. I am going to guess here that it was your wife who said---buy that co-op (as mine did years back about a house--luckily).

Mudcat surely brings out our personal feelings when the discussion is right---and it doesn't cost over 100.00 per 50 min. hour and lead to diatribes from certain people--they know who they are.

Living near the NYC area let me just refer to a few comments by Stilly River etc;---yes and no. Sure you can get around much more easily. The Metro Card--to which you refer--still costs (and they are raising it again)---a family of 4 wants to go to say the Bronx Zoo--Cost: $16 roundtrip transit; Admission: Perhaps 25.00 Food: either bring your own or figure 25.00 for fast food.   Same for Museums. I won't even mention live shows.

Growing up there I know most of those things (including college ed. were free--with the right grade average).

My point is that Social Security is a wonderful thing---but, unfortunately, you cannot live in this area with it. I imagine the same applies in the West Coast from where Don hails. I do add, however, that govt employees ( of NYS) have such a lucrative pension plan at taxpayer's expense that it pays for them to retire early ---go south and just smile.

However, one needs more than smiles. Culture, interests, books (as Don says), theater, travel, etc; are all part of the quality of life. We can get that here in the Metro NY area---but one does need the dollars for it. It is hard for those of great means--and I know some--to fully understand this.

In the interests of full disclosure---which Poppa Alligator has done---Many years back I went to municipal pools while others joined clubs. I never did. I am not saying this to brag---merely saying I did not want to spend the money--felt it truly a waste and a fake face one puts on.    I play tennis on municipal courts---with--strangely--people who are very wealthy and also belong to clubs (well, their husbands do anyway). I do admit to playing on private clay courts when I can find a partner---love the surface---but for $8 on 75 yr old courts---why not. Also makes me feel like a kid in 1945 again.

As to credit cards. So far---always paid on time to avoid any charges---this does not, by the way, make you a valued customer. More like a pain in the ass who is not feeding their profits. Famlilial values I guess---wish my own felt that way. Although, in honesty, one lives in NYC and is hard pressed to makes ends meet.

I suppose we should end by going back to the begining of the thread.    Americans do not live---as a general rule--"high off the hog". Civil Servants get great vacations, private industry less so. To keep up with our standard of living & expenses (in metro areas) many take on other work and less vacation.   How many of the Europeans with all the vacation can afford the cultural ammenites thir metro areas offer? That may answer a few questions about vacation and American values---which-=-==history tells us has been an ongoing and improving thing until recently when our European counterparts have opened their hearts (hopefully?) and minds (hopefully?) to a world of brotherhood/sisterhood. Our current administration aside---we have been there. And---again full disclosure---I came from Austria. Not a happy memory.


Bill Hahn