Bert, I am going to nitpick here... :-) You said, "If the war hadn't been fought then we would be speaking German or Japanese right now."

No way, man! Are the Japanese speaking English now? Are the Germans speaking English and Russian now? (as their first language, I mean...) Nope! We would most definitely NOT be speaking German now if the Germans had won, we would still be speaking English just like we were before. You entirely overestimate the ability of a victor to totally alter the cultural fabric and tradition of a foreign society that he has scored a temporary victory over in a war.

The Chinese are still speaking Chinese now too, despite having been occupied by several foreign powers for an extended period in history, and the Indians are still speaking Hindi.

All victories, my friend, are temporary...believe me. People who win a war sometimes lose the peace that follows it!

And that is my nitpicking statement on your last post. I am sick of people saying "we would all be speaking German now if Hitler had won". It's a cliche, and it is a foolish one in the extreme.

I understand your feelings on the matter perfectly, however. My father was in England during the Blitz, and he went ashore at Normandy and fought the Germans till VE-Day.

Oh...jeez...gotta nitpick again. "How do you ATTEMPT to surrender?"

You attempt to end a losing war by suggesting to the other side that you would be willing to discuss terms if they would be willing to. The Japanese were making such suggestions through Russia by early 1945. While that does not necessarily equal total "surrender" it does indicate a willingness to seek a mutually agreed upon end to hostilities...an armistace. And that is how most wars in history have been ended, by mutual discussion and an armistace. That is the sensible way to end a war.

"The Japanese were still shooting at us" Well, yeah! We were still shooting at them. And our level of shooting power exceeded theirs at the time by a huge measure. Why would they not shoot at fleets of bombers over their cities? I certainly would have if I was them.

Raedwulf - You are absolutely right about the Treaty of Versailles. It was the French who vigorously sought punitive reparations against Germany after WW I, not the French AND the British, as I had suggested. I typed in haste there and I was in error. It was Clemenceau who insisted on his pound of flesh where Germany was concerned. The French were bitter over the Franco-Prussian War and over the damage which had been done on French soil. This is understandable. Nevertheless, their attempt to permanently punish and cripple Germany after WW I was ill-advised. They suffered the consequences in 1940.

Nerd - I agree that the Germans and Japanese were responsible for starting the war(s) that are collectively known as WWII. I agree absolutely. I do not agree, however, that an invasion of mainland Japan OR the use of atomic bombs in 1945 was necessary to end it. It would have ended sometime in late 1945 regardless. The Russian attacks on the Chinese mainland after 8th August '45 would have been plenty enough to persuade the Japanese to quit. The Allied invasion of Japan was scheduled for the spring of 1946, but the war would have already have ended before that invasion ever needed to take place. Factions were growing ever stronger in Japan around the Emperor arguing for a necessity to end the conflict, and the Russian attack would have been quite sufficient to put those factions in control, despite certain fanatics in the Army who wanted to die fighting.

That's just my opinion, based on what I've read about it. Like other people, I trust my own opinion (naturally).

And I just love discussing history. That's why I keep coming back here.