You raise a very useful point there, Bill, when you say:

"well... why is it necessary to have meaning beyond our own subjective interpretation? If we GIVE it meaning, it HAS meaning. I believe in the values of truth, beauty, sharing, loving, caring, learning, ..and a few more...but I have no notion that these are anything but relative values which I/we superimpose on experience. I believe that the opposites of those values are in the LONG view self-defeating. Of course, some derive different opinions from short-term views...stealing, lying..etc.."

Exactly! That is the wonder of free will, and the ability to impart meaning to what would otherwise be meaningless...and that is an ability derived from consciousness, and consciousness is an aspect of spirit. The relative values which we superimpose on experience are created and used BY us in a beautifully intelligent and meaningful manner....or in same cases, NOT so intelligent...as in the case of the thief, liar, etc...but still intelligent on a certain level...a level of thinking which says, "Only my needs matter".

Do you see that we are using God-like abilities to give meaning to the World around us? We are God, Bill, all of us. We are God embodied in an apparently separate and limited being. If that limited being fails to see the commonality of spirit in the other limited beings around it, and thinks that ITS survival is all that matters, then it becomes what we term "immoral" or "amoral" in its actions. In so doing, it is demonstrating the limits of its own understanding. People who see themselves in others, and thereby respect and care for others are far more helpful and responsible. These are the spiritual challenges of masquerading as a limited being in an enormous field of opportunity/threat...which we call the World or the Universe.

You are God embodied, Bill. So am I. So is the skeptical Guest, and so is everyone else. Only question is, how do we go about expressing it? Are we conscious of higher purpose, partially conscious of it, or wholly ignorant of it? I would rather deal with a morally responsible atheist than a morally irresponsible religious nut any time...because the morally responsible atheist is far better tuned into higher purpose, whether he identifies it as that or not. Most of all, I enjoy dealing with a morally responsible person who IS keenly aware of spiritual purpose.


As for these skeptics who offer prizes, like the Unamazing Randi, they are just laughable in their desperate need for attention and ego justification. They remind me of J. Jonah Jamieson. :-) Their perfect mental counterparts are people who think Eve was made out of Adam's rib...and those are the people they ought to spend their time debating with uselessly.