I have finally risen to #1 on my local library's list of patrons for this book [Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan Jacoby], and hope to pick it up this week.

As some of you may recall, we discussed this subject after I started this thread back in May, after seeing an interview of the author on this episode of NOW with Bill Moyers.

I am starting a new thread here, because I think it would be interesting to discuss how this dynamic is being subsumed by other issues in the presidential race, most recently by the wholly relevant rearguing of the legitimacy of the Vietnam war, and the conduct of American military and civilian government personnel in the execution of that war.

Nowhere is the confluence of American patriotism and the Christian religion stronger than in the US military, IMO. So I wanted to inject this subject into the discussion of the differences between the parties and their candidates in this year's election in the expression of their patriotism, how it is and isn't "informed" (for a lack of a better word, although I know it sounds somewhat elitist and academic) by the traditions of American Christianity and American Secularism. I see this "holy war" as a very strong undercurrent to the battle being fought over Kerry's Vietnam service.

I also think that this battle is merely a way for the mainstream public debate over the legitimacy of the US invasion and occupation of Iraq, and especially, as a way to obfuscate the horrors of who and what our soldiers become when waging war--because the one thing neither party or candidate is willing to discuss openly is the legitimacy of that war, and ESPECIALLY the conduct of our soldiers there vis a vis things like the destruction of historic sites, the bombing of civilians, the attacks on the religious symbols and sites of the Shiites, and of course, the torture scandals.

Additionally, I feel that this subject Secularism vs Patriotism and the US Christian Religion, is probably the central issue driving the most important constitutional crises that have taken root in the US since the country's takeover by the Republican Right in 1980 with the election of Ronald Reagan.

I think it is certainly at the root of the debacle that is the US Patriot Act, with it's Christian vs Muslim undercurrents.