The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #73222   Message #1269505
Posted By: Bill D
11-Sep-04 - 05:32 PM
Thread Name: BS: Is there a god or not?
Subject: RE: BS: Is there a god or not?
I'm sorry, Georgiansilver, but you have missed a couple of the points I made and distorted others.

I can certainly test news about hurricanes, both by photographs and by reliability of the predictions the news brings me. I, personally, get the leftover rains from these storms, and I see pictures of the damage done elsewhere. We are not arguing about whether I am obligated to doubt everything because I doubt some things.

I have studied MANY beliefs, and though I have not necessarily disPROVED them, I have dismissed some because they turned out to be hoaxes (like the gentle one of Santa Claus) and others because there were conflicting beliefs which could not ALL be true, and others because they required me to ignore other things I did know to be true.

As to being affected by others beliefs...suppose YOU were told that "the earth is the center of the Universe, and no other theory will be tolerated"? This happened to Galileo, and it certainly affected him! Giordano Bruno also had problems making HIS ideas fit with any of the church leaders of the times, and it got him burned at the stake, even though his ideas were closer to the Church than to Galileo.

Today there are still those who would impose their beliefs on the rest of society if they could, and that they can't does not make them 'right', and neither does NOT trying to impose on others.
   I 'mostly' agree that, as you say, " A belief is a belief whether you care for it or not...Your words cannot change beliefs."...but what I write MAY eventually affect how someone thinks or believes, just as your witnessing and being a good example for your beliefs MAY help others to believe similarly. But, with this situation, we need a system where the rights of both sides can be respected. This should not be a matter for 'majority rule'-- I am sure that if 99% of your country became atheists, you would at least like the privilege of continuing to worship in your way....and if 99% of my country became Christians, I should still have the right to not be intimidated by the majority and have their reasoning preached directly at me, in school, at ball games, or any where else!

I advocate a type of testing/reasoning/thinking that allows you to believe anything you wish, but which still makes clear that certain beliefs are ONLY beliefs. Subjective experiences like that written about so clearly by shycat above cannot be ignored--the experience was real...but it WAS subjective, and literally, **no one knows** how or why it happened or whether it has more 'reality' than the intense dream I had last night. I think I can explain how experiences like dreams and 'out of body' experiences like shycat's (and other's) might happen, but I certainly can't PROVE it....and I am not trying to. She felt this intensely, and it meant something to her, whether it was real or not. So do my dreams! They are MINE, and I see aspects of me in them...but I do not claim that my dreams come FROM anywhere but inside me...because I can't defend that position!

I don't know if all that makes any difference....you may never agree with me, but I sure hate being misunderstood and my ideas mis-represented!