bruce--give it up. You BEGAN this thread with an unnecessarily extreme characterization of Kerry's views. When you were called on it, you tried to change the issue to 1) a technical nit-pic over definition of gun types and 2) a hollow, vague claim that "your side did the same to Bush". I don't see anyone here claiming that they can prove Bush actually lied...I certainly didn't!
   What WE say is that whether Bush EVER actally lied or not, we consider his actions and choices poorly planned and indefensible.

We 'could' argue that, but you choose to argue by innuendo, just as you did about Theresa Heinz, saying that 'if a liberal had made that comment, you'd not be dismissing it' -- (I didn't do the search for you exact words, but that thread went on much like this one, with you claiming 'bias' and acting as if the mere assertion proved your point.)

It is not usually POSSIBLE to 'prove' a lie or claim about motivation in these situations, about either side...so it's best to stick to opinion and analysis that doesn't leave YOU open to easy pot-shots.