We surely have embarked on a theological discussion . I believe that can lead to understanding from many sides if we keep open minds.

The good Rabbi made comments re: raison de etre for the State of Israel.   He also made reference to being understanding by not driving through Meah Shirim. He surely is correct there. The problem presents itself in the demand for the shutdown of ElAl and/or public transport on that day.   Since the majority of the nation is secular it would seem to me that they should not be made to abide by the religious minority's rules.

Musicmic makes that very valid point---the definition of the State as used by the UN in its creation.
By the way--Musicmic---it is Loch in Kopf (Hole In The Head).

It is not generally known, I believe, that there is a particular Hassidic sect (Satmar) that are very anti-Israel.   They consider it a secular and illegal place. Their belief is that only Messiah can bring us into the "Promised Land".

So--to bring it to a conclusion---it comes down to beliefs. I know that is a simple truism. Perhaps the dichotomy is in that those who have "faith" ie: total belief in something are on one side and those with a more pragmatic and questioning philosophy are on the other. All religions have their "faith". They all believe they are the holders of "truth" Therein lies the problem. So, here on earth, it must be adjudicated by the rule of secular law. Given that fact---and given the definition of Jewish by Jews and also by the UN (vis a vis Israel) --we have to accept Israel as a Jewish Secular State. Probably the best solution all around

One last thought about the electrical use mention.   I have never understood why it is OK to accept the benefits of the product provided you are not involved in its manual operation. I am reminded of an Orthodox friend of mine from many years ago who asked me to hold his cash on the Sabbath as we walked about town--so if he wanted something--say ice cream--I would purchase it. You are not a sinner if you receive the benefit as long as someone else did the deed--whatever it is.

I cannot argue with "faith"--but logic????


Bill Hahn