There are a lot of tangled ideas in this thread.

Let's You and Him Fight (LYAHF): A Sexual Game . . . . Reproduced with permission from Games People Play by Dr. Eric Berne. I don't know what in heck this had to do with the conversation. And I am appalled that his editors didn't catch all of those horrible errors with pronouns. Ugg. That description of a game, an offshoot of the 1960s fad "I'm OK, You're OK" of pop psychology, should be set aside and forgotten. Sorry, Harpgirl, but that's the way I see that one, anyway.

Thanks, Little Hawk, so many posts later, for acknowledging that you were reading some of these remarks.

The hubris of pronouncing religion "mental illness" is too much for even this more-or-less-atheist to take. I was serious about the Foucault--it's hard work getting through from beginning to end, but he does a marvelous job of examining what society was thinking when it began pronouncing non-conformists "mentally ill." "Hospitals" as institutions didn't used to be places of healing like they are (supposed to be) today. They were institutions where the insane were stashed away. There are people who are a danger to themselves and others, and how they got that way can be quite a story. There are many genetic, chemical, accidental, and social reasons. Religious abuse may be part of it. Amos remarked I think you will agree that those who are mentally ill often use religious language or religious groups to hide behind, as well as sometimes getting into other things to cover up their problems and seek to survive. This is important, but one must recognize that "mentally ill" doesn't translate to "mentally deficient." Picking up code words is one survival mechanism that may work well for some individuals who are mentally ill. Others parrot it if they have been part of a captive audience of religious orders that mean well (we hope), but the outcome beyond speaking the empty words may be negligible. Learn the code words and 1) people feed you, clothe you, give you a place to sleep or 2) leave you alone because they don't want to tangle with what is apparently a pretty gnarly belief system you're operating under.

I'll give you a key to behavior that is part of a good psychology 101 class--if you continually treat people as if you expect them to act in a certain way, after a while this is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and they will begin to act that way. Especially if they are constrained in an institution or strict social situation. Those who are healthy enough to rebel may well break free. But others, subject to draconian rules or others who anticipate certain problems will find that when they behave the way they are expected, they actually get a form of approval. It's one of those bizarre aspects of flawed social science. Form the wrong shotr-sighted hypothesis and wait for the subject to finally do what you expect (meanwhile ignoring all of the rest of the behavior and a plethora of clues as to how this individual really ticks).

This doesn't mean there are no truly mentally ill people in the world. I've come across many in my work over the years (municipal recreation programs typically have special programs for emotionally disturbed and mentally retarded challenged individuals. I worked in one of those in college and after for a number of years.

SRS (who is amused that that very good definition of "hubris" comes from a christian liberal arts college in Tennessee. That site looks like an excellent reference source.)