Big Tim, if you are an atheist, why should I take your word over my own personal experience of Roman Catholicism? The American Roman Catholics who are the staunchest supporters of this pope are extreme right wingers--like those who support the Right to Life movement--and who are Bush Republicans.

This pope has been nearly as divisive to the American Roman Catholic laity as Bush has been to the US electorate. Despite the disagreement over the 2 Gulf Wars notwithstanding, Dubya and John Paul are two conservative extremist peas in a pod. And I don't care how much the American news media tries to remake the image of this pope over into a Reagan anti-communist hero, that just ain't the reality of this pope's reign.

There are very few Europeans weighing in on this thread, and the majority of them seem to be pretty conservative Roman Catholics themselves, including Brian and McGrath of Harlow. However, my experiences travelling throughout Europe during the reign of this pope has also shown me that this pope was much less popular in most of Western Europe than he is in the US. And because of the meddling of this pope, women's rights in Poland have nearly been turned back to the Middle Ages. All thanks to the religious conservatism and backlash against women's rights among the leaders of Solidarity and the other Polish trade unions.

I have a Polish sister in law, a Roman Catholic feminist, who thinks this pope is WORSE than the influence of communism in Poland when it comes to women's rights.

You see, Roman Catholics aren't just one big happy family who loves their Big Daddy unquestioningly.

First and last warning. This is an obit thread, not a discussion of what you hate about the Catholic Church. If you want to discuss that, then fair enough. Do it in the non obit thread or start one. Any further attempts to hijack this or any other thread will be deleted.

Mudelf