The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #80159   Message #1461384
Posted By: JohnInKansas
14-Apr-05 - 03:52 PM
Thread Name: BS: Gay marriage, a proposal (pun intended)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay marriage, a proposal (pun intended)
The US Census department enumerated something just over 1800 separate "rights of marriage" not too long ago. For the most part these were not "legal" rights, with any laws enforcing them, but were benefits having civil meaning that normally are available to married couples but not to unmarrieds. (The list did not include any rights to participate in any sacraments or rituals of any religion.)

Not too long ago the complaint from the churches was that civil law had no business "interfering" with the sacred ritual of marriage by requiring a license to be married. It was well established that the marriage license is only a recognition by civil law that the two parties to the marriage may act together, or may act separately for them both, and that contracts made by one are binding on them both. This has the legitimate purpose of protecting the rest of the community from entering into contracts or other entanglements without being aware that "the person has two heads."

It was left up to the churches to prescribe their own rituals and sacraments, and to assure that the married couple had the faith to live up to them. Whether you call it a marriage license or a license for civil union or any other name, the license really has virtually nothing to do with the requirements of any faith.

Perhaps a "solution" is simply to abolish the "Marriage License," and issue a "License for Civil Union" to all for purposes of contracts, debts, powers of attorney, inheritance, etc., and let the churches do their own thing under the old name of Marriage, according to each faith's own sacraments and beliefs - without a license if they choose to do so.

Note that this still doesn't grant "them you don't like" any freedom to get one of those licenses, until or unless the Legislature comes up with acceptable rules on eligibility. Most US States have such rules in place. It would perhaps prevent ONE group of religionists from attempting to force their belief on everyone of all (or no) religions.

And a note to Guest: The "holocaust" actually started off with a crusade against homosexuals, under the guise of "controlling undesirables." Some estimate that 60,000 or so "queers" were sent to forced labor camps under the suspensions of civil liberties immediately following Neuremburg 1939, and a majority of them died there. Quite a few didn't make it that far, because abuses based on a "presumption of immoral behavior" simply weren't prosecuted. The numbers from different sources vary quite a bit, but there is no question that they were significant. They also solved their unemployment problems by sending any one who refused any job offered (and the offers could be pretty ridiculous) to forced labor camps where "they didn't count" in the statistics. And a lot of them died there.

Although they appealed to "protecting religion" hand in hand with the protocol for "protection of the purity of the race," in fairly short order it became a crime (subject, without trial, to "rehabilitation" at hard labor) to cite any religious belief in objection to any actions by the "government." This excuse was used against those of the prevailing faiths as well as against jews. Apparently few lived long enough to improve their thinking, although there were some exceptions.

Or so I'm told.

John