The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #80159   Message #1462022
Posted By: JohnInKansas
15-Apr-05 - 08:18 AM
Thread Name: BS: Gay marriage, a proposal (pun intended)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay marriage, a proposal (pun intended)
If only because it is so vaguely known by many people, the fequently posted listings of "Famous Gays" may be a useful reference point now in this thread. I had the urge to just paste one in earlier, but fortunately or not I couldn't find one that would have been less than 30 or 40 screens on most viewers. (I thought about calling it "people who disagree with Martin," which would have been sort of crude, and I apologize for the thought.)

There are quite a few such lists on the net, and some of them are of rather questionable accuracy, but the one at the Famous Gays list at Wikipedia appears to be pretty well researched. There is a reasonable discussion of the significance of the listings, and numerous links to clarifying definitions and to additional information.

A first section of the list includes those who have "self confirmed" that they are homosexual or bisexual, or for whom historical evidence is sufficiently available to make reasonably probable determination. You will find at least two Popes, several Lords, a fistfull of current members of the US Congress, and an occasional mass murderer or serial killer (the latter in about the same proportions as on any similar list of "not gays.")

A second section of the listing includes those for whom there have been "probable indications" of homosexual or bisexual inclination, but for whom the determination is not positively known. It is notable that quite a number who commonly appear on lists of this sort are not listed here, indicating they've included only those where the evidence has significant credibility. There are links to biographical information for many of those on this list so that you can look at whether you agree with their inclusion.

There is also even a short third section of "those who once said they were gay but now say they were not." Not surprising – they're mostly recent "entertainment" figures.

While an attitude or a law that causes harm is a bad attitude or a bad law regardless of how many it harms, for some it may help to place the discussion in better context if they are aware of what sorts of persons are being discussed. Visit the link if you're so inclined, at your leisure.

Keep in mind that like most of us, the majority of persons affected by the attitudes being discussed here are not famous, so they're obviously not in any such list.

John