The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #80337   Message #1464005
Posted By: robomatic
17-Apr-05 - 11:35 PM
Thread Name: BS: The New Anti-semitism
Subject: RE: BS: The New Anti-semitism
dianavan, you wrote:

Although I think the formation of the State of Israel was not well thought out, I certainly don't think the destruction of Israel is the answer. I also do not think it is up to the rest of the world to solve Israel's problems.

The Zionist movement which resulted in the formation of Israel was proceeding by stages up to World War II. It is worthy of its own research or thread, but the formation of the State of Israel had little to do with 'thinking things out' due to the massive changes iin the World wrought by World Wars I and II. Until the First World War, the Middle East was under the purview of the Turkish Empire. Turkey allied with the Germans during WWI and post war Turkey pretty much lost her empire and England assumed the Mandate over Palestine, having made a commitment to a Jewish State partly as a response to a Jewish chemist who enabled wartime production of vital chemicals through an early use of industrial bioengineering. The United Nations approved of a division of the territories between Jewish and Arab, and the Arabs tried to forestall this by armed action on the part of the neighbor states, (Iraq included). So Israel was formed by the fortunes of war, as are many nations.

I also do not believe that Jews are the only people who have been oppressed or subjected to genocide. What would happen if we gave Natives their homeland and pushed all others into the desert regions? What if we gave African Americans a homeland in Georgia to call their own? What if we gave Romania to the Roms? How about we give back Ireland to the Irish?

I don't see anything in that sentence to either disagree with or to take seriously. There have been many oppressions and genocides through history. Jews have made an attempt to end their particular victimhood by resorting to a well defended Jewish State. As to Natives, if you mean Native Americans, there are Native homelands in the United States. I've been to several of them. I'm not aware of a significant number of African Americans at present requiring a homeland but you may be interested to know that the nation of Liberia in Africa was founded precisely for that reason, and was initially settled by African Americans.
There are plenty of Irish who think they already live in Ireland:-)

I just don't understand why Jews are so special.

Well, Jews aren't so special. They are human beings who wish to maintain a culture and religion and lifestyle as Jews. What makes YOU think THEY think they are so special?

Could it be that they have a powerful lobby in Washington and Washington has a great deal to gain?

Could definitely be that through sometimes bitter experience Jews have learned to be forthright about Jewish interests in the United States and the world. There are some other powerful lobbies in Washington, quite a few of them in fact that have nothing to do with Jews. There has long been a powerful petroleum lobby which has advocated Arab interests against Israel.

Its not about anti-semitism as much as it is about what is fair. I do not hate Jews but I do not like the power of the Israeli/American alliance and the double standards that are applied world-wide.

I am not clear what you mean. I don't know what you consider anti-semitism or a false use of the term. And I think the concept of fairness is a red herring. There is no fair solution to this problem. I can't help it if you think there is a powerful Israeli/ American alliance, but consider that during the cold war, the Soviets tried to establish influence in India, Africa and parts of the Arab world, the United States allied with Pakistan, Israel, and other parts of the Arab world. In this post cold war era, Israel remains the only country in the area with electoral politics and civil and social rights among its women (of all religions).

I think the double standard is quite objectionable and I have witnessed it used against Israel more than for her in requiring Israel to make sacrifices that are not required of her neighbors, and her neighbors are not required to make similar guarantees of safeguarding Israelis from violence, nor indeed establishing democratic reforms and due process of law for their own citizens.