GUEST,Martha Gummet, I would agree that

the common ground I thought we shared on welcoming all people to Mudcat --whether they're "looking for 'music'" or not--doesn't seem to be there.

It has disappeared under a barrage of judgmental defensiveness where whatever one posts is immediately taken as an opportuity to feel either morally superior or victimized, and to let fly from a soapboax that precludes "dialogue."

This makes a fine example of that new model of Mudcat: I see Cranky Young Woman trivialising the feelings of older men. I find that to be more than a little disingenuous.

Perhaps your pre-existing perspective makes it hard to see her post from another view. Older men already know that they are subject to exclusion and discrimination. Yes, they do know this and they are treated this way, and I agree ity is wrong and hurtful.

I also know quite a few older men who are reaping the seeds of poor relationship they have sown, who have brought "exclusion" upon themselves as their own actions drove caring people away. For example, I know MANY caregivers who labor on despite an increased rate and degree of abuse. Once in awhile, you know what-- they need to VENT. And all caregiver support professionals urge them to have a safe place where they can do just that.

What is my own pre-existing view? Well, about 20 years ago I started a movement called Allies of Men. We quite actively (and effectively) protested male-bashing. We focused on mutually respectful relationships between ourselves and men, and did not engage in telling men how they "ought" to treat women. But we didn't sit around and encourage bad behavior, either, and once in a great while, we VENTED in a safe place and then got right back to those relationships.


It was amazing to me that when I did some respite cargiving for my paw in law, he was really nice to me. "What did you DO?" I treated him with respect and I smilingly told him to knock it off when he didn't, and left the room till I could resume my own friendly cheer. Guess what-- he was perfectly capable of being quite nice, and thanked me for interrupting his bad habit. I occasionally ranted and vented in a safe place-- away from him-- to maintain my detachment and high expectations.

Mudcat isn't really a safe place, though, for any kind of rant, as most ranters have seen. The group dynamic and environment's design here does not allow it.

I strongly believe that one doesn't need to enable bad behavior in order to prevent men's isolation-- they are completely capable of forming and maintaining lifelong, close relationships THEMSELVES. Our community is full of them.

~Susan