Of course, if anyone dares to disagree with Shambles, it's labeled "abuse." Heck, if I say anything in disagreement with anybody, no matter how politely and logically, I get accused of all sorts of horrible things. I guess some people think I'm not allowed to express my opinion here. Such is life.

I was certainly aware that adding the tag (thread title change complaint) to the title of this thread, would be viewed by some as an act of defiance against the rules Shambles seeks to impose upon us. Still, the title In the UK... had no meaning at all, and our general principle is to ensure threads have titles that indicate the contents of the thread. So, I changed the thread title. I can't say I felt really horribly guilty about defying Shambles in that way, but the fact of the matter is that the thread title change follows our general principles.

Before we had the ability to change thread titles, we had scads of messages in every misleadingly-titled thread, preaching to the originator on how a thread should be titled, and urging him to start another thread with a proper title. Now, if a thread title doesn't adequately describe the contents, we just simply change it. No big deal.

We've always operated under the principle that threads are a product of the community, not of the thread originator. We have allowed thread originators to control the content of threads only in certain designated PermaThreads. Otherwise, thread originators generally have no control over what people may or may not say in subsequent messages. Each individual has more-or-less complete control over the contents of his or her individual message, but not over the entire thread. Therefore, it would seem to follow logically that the thread title should reflect the needs of the community that produced the thread, not only of the thread originator.

If the thread originator controls the thread then it follows that he/she should control the thread title and should be consulted about any title change. That's not the case here, so I see no need to ask permission of the thread originator for a title clarification. Please note, however, that thread originators ARE contacted if there is any reason to think that a thread title change would make it difficult for the originator to find the thread.

So, I guess it boils down to this: Shambles thinks it's an offense against the thread originator to change a thread title, so changes should be made only with the thread originator's permission. We think otherwise, but we do make attempts to contact the thread originator in certain situations when we think it's necessary. I think that's an indication that we've met Shambles halfway. That seems fair to me - I see no need for total compliance to his rules, but we have made an effort to honor his concerns.

As for Bert's question about location designators, we usually add location tags for threads on gigs/tours/festivals where the location is not obvious, and on items for sale where international shipping might present a problem. Although the thread in question does not fall into either category, the location addition made sense. We usually try to follow the rules of common sense, not some lengthy legalistic guidebook. Our general guiding principle in thread title renaming is clarity. We have other people who scream at us because we allow naughty words in thread titles, but propriety has not generally been a major concern in our editing - that gets a little too close to censorship.

-Joe Offer-

Now, in the very next message, Shambles will copy-paste the very same three 2004 messages he always posts to show how abusive I am. Can't say they sound very abusive to me, but I guess they do sound worse when taken out of context. There is one message that doesn't sound quite as funny as it did when I posted it, but then I didn't expect it to be copy-pasted three dozen times...