Well, without beatin' this poor horse to death, and speaking from the progressive side, when we don't "win" the debates we get stuff like the invasion of Iraq...

Call it winnin' or not, it is about winning the debate and for progressives, who do not have the corporate media behind us or well financed pro-Bush organizations spinning crap into silver, it is a daily and difficult battle...

But make no bones about it, every one of us here on this side knows that if we don't faight the good fight that these crooks will hurt or kill more people...

Think Katrina as well as Iraq here for starters...

Bobert