pdq - Hi! I've been away. In regards to your comments on the Oregon vote...

I don't regard "liberal" as being equivalent to "socialist". There are and always have been some extremely conservative socialists in this world, and I don't find them too appealing at all.

What I mean is this: A true conservative (as I think of the word) is someone who tends to strongly support established authority systems. Therefore, in a predominantly socialist system, a true conservative is VERY socialist (and will consider none other THAN a socialist approach to just about anything). A liberal in a socialist system is someone who is open to mixing other options WITH socialism.

In a predominantly capitalist system, the reverse is true, and a true conservative abhors socialism on principle (or at least thinks he does...despite the fact that his society already contains much socialism anyway, and cannot help but do so). (and that deserves a wry grin...)

The psychology of conservatism is...support the established authority system to the hilt. Repeat the past. An Aztec conservative supported the idea of human sacrifice and eating people's hearts (after all, it had been working great for years, hadn't it?). A Spanish conquistador conservative supported burning heathens at the stake and melting all their gold art down into bullion, while justifying it all with the Bible. A German conservative in 1943 supported Hitler and the Nazi Party. A Chinese conservative in the Cultural Revolution supported the Communist Party. A Roman conservative supported expanding the Empire...and so it goes...

It's so predictable...and it has NOTHING to do intrinsically with being or not being a socialist. (except in the USA, apparently)

The latter is true because Americans have been told fear-mongering incredible and untrue BS about socialism ever since they were crawling out of the cradle, and most people tend to believe what they have been told all their lives.

It has nothing to do with conservatism or liberalism.

Your present leaders (in the USA) are not conservatives, they are extreme corporate/capitalist radicals pretending to be conservatives. Your public is naive and ignorant enough to fall for that pretense.

The Democrats may or may not pretend to be liberals at any give time, but they are not liberals. They are also corporate/capitalist servants in nature, and they are serving much the same conservative interests as the Republicans do, while pretending to be different. (they adopt a superficially different style...that's a marketing ploy...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't).

That's why USA elections are largely meaningless, in my opinion, and will continue to be so, in all probability.

But that's okay. ;-) Our elections (in Canada) are largely meaningless too, and so are the U.K.'s elections. It's fairly much the norm these days. This is what happens when political parties are run by big business interests and bankers.