GUEST,AR282 - Date: 22 Nov 05 - 10:36 PM

Your post and point of view is based on cherry-picked ideas, parts of actual statements, all rolled up to serve your purpose.

With regard to members of the MNF leaving, they could all be home in January if the elected Government of Iraq wishes, although I somehow doubt it. For the British sector, we started in March 2003 with just under 40,000 troops, that number has been reduced to about 8,000, it is the opinion of Iraq's current Prime Minister that he can foresee British troops leaving Iraq as early as within the next six months. Is it possible, yes all things are possible, I have no reason to doubt that we will leave, Basra and the South have been more settled than Anbar and the Sunni triangle.

Arne ....."Actually, some did. I was not thrilled with the Tomahawking of Iraq in 1993, nor the 1998 Desert Fox. COme to think of it, there were tons of Republicans that were incensed with 1998 .... fancy that."

Of the latter they were hacked off because he did not ask for approval of both houses and it was a poorly thought out exercise that could not accomplish the aim.

Arne...."But I'd note that "sense of the Congress" resolutions are far different from actually bombing someone, much less an armed invasion and occupation killiong many thousadns of people many of them civilians."

Are you trying to tell us that after setting Regime Change in Iraq as a corner stone of US Middle-East Foreign Policy, The US did not bomb Iraq after it said it would put its faith in the UN efforts and in the wishes of the people of Iraq? Dessert Fox achieved very little, actions taken by the US since summer 2002 have achieved a great deal.


Arne...."In fact, the inspectors withdrew at Clinton's request, not because Saddam kicked them out (as the likes of Dubya seem to believe and even more want you to believe .... for some reason)."

I don't believe that I said that Saddam kicked UNSCOM out just before Dessert Fox. UNSCOM were advised to withdraw their personnel on the recommendation of the US Government. UNSCOM were kicked out of Iraq in 1997/early 1998 by Saddam, which was one of the factors that sparked the incident.

Arne....."But you're simply wrong about it being Clinton's idea to invade Iraq."

When did I say that it was Clinton's idea to invade Iraq - What I did say was that Clinton set Regime Change in Iraq as a corner stone of US Middle-East Foreign Policy. Bit of a difference, but your English Comprehension is poor, you only ever read into something, that which suits your arguement/point of view, something like Guest AR282. The stuff about PNAC and their memo - Red Herring.

Teribus...."Now how about Kuwait, you know that little place from which the Invasion of Iraq was launched, the place that played host to around 250,000 of your countrymen in the lead up to March 2003. What about Saudi Arabia, oh and there's Bahrain, Qatar, and to a much, much lesser extent Egypt, Jordan and Turkey."

Arne's reply to this was the equivalent of .. "Didn't too". But noted he did not deny that the countries mentioned above did assist the US, not just Israel, nor does he deny that they are all US allies in the region.

Arne...."When your enemy's shooting himself in the foot, you don't stop him. Say, that all worked out wonderfully for the Iranians, eh?"

I would say that the only people who have been shooting themselves in the foot recently Arne have been the Iranians.

Arne....."Can you sing "Duuuck ... and coooverrrr..."? But I've read York, Kahn, Rhodes, and whole raft of other books on the subject. Stategery aside, fact remains that the U.S. retains a whole s***load of WoMD. I note you don't dispute it; you simply try to brush it off ... curious tactic for one who complains that I'm "ducking the points"...."

The question asked was completely ignored by young Arne, it would have proved inconvenient to his line of reasoning. No-one disputes that the US retains WMD, as do Britain, France, Russia, China under the terms of the nuclear NPT. Pakistan, India and probably Israel also have nuclear capability, legally as it happens as they are not signatories to the nuclear NPT, therefore not bound by it terms.

Arne...."One thing that someone with a bit more rational mind might glean from the Nazi era, though, is that it is dangerous (if sometimes nonetheless the moral position) to allow a country to become very militarised, very aggressive, and to go around occupying other countries. Yes, in such cases, if you wait long enough, the price of removing the cancer of such a country may be immense in blood and sorrow ... but sometimes it may need to be done, when that country has finally slid down into fascism and oppression and started their rampage across the world."..... Perfect description of Iraq 1990 to 2003, and of the international communities responsibilities and actions. The Ba'athist Party in both Iraq and Syria is a National Socialist Party based on the German Nazi Party.

Arne....You never did say what your parents thought about that idea of someone taking Hitler on over attempted German re-armament in 1933 to 1935. The likely outcome, or the fear of that happening, are not based on my opinion but that of a German General Heinz Guderian.

Arne...."First, I don't know who they were or even if they existed"

You don't know Arne, but you automatically assume that they didn't because it suits your arguement? The UN seemed to believe in their existence, the Kuwaiti Government certainly believed in their existence. Saddam will be dragged in front of a court for this crime sometime in the near future. It is an incident that might even get him in front of an international court.

Cheers,