Also, if we're going to bring in history, let's be acccurate if we can. The Burgundians and English wanted Joan dead. It wasn't likely after her capture that they would have let her go. Burned for heresy--however, the pope was not involved in this one. It seems clear this was another abuse of religion.

Nobody argues that religion has not been abused. Just like patriotism has also been abused. There is such a thing as throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Neither religion nor patriotism is worthless because they've been (and continue to be) abused.

Amen.

Thanks for that, Ron. The baby and the bathwater analogy works perfectly ... actually, it's come to mind several times already, posting to this thread.

I, for one, am grateful for your thread and it's title, Shambles. I've been untangling a few personal "twists" here. In the process, I'm discovering that my angry, accusing and yes, (guess I'll admit it) rather intolerant attitudes toward organized religion(s) have softened up quite a bit since I started posting on the Cat a couple years ago. (Oh, be still my beating heart!) So thanks for this opportunity to get a bit closer to the truth, Shambles.

daylia