So what you are saying Ron is that the more things change the more they remain the same, which, when applied to Iraq seems to imply that you would rather that Saddam was still in power - millions of Iraqi's would disagree with you.

What were the points you raised, implying that they were "caused" by the intervention of the coalition forces:

Ron Davies - 09 Mar 06 - 11:07 PM

1) Kurdish desire for their own country, specifically the item IN THE CONSTITUTION regarding census and referendum in oil-rich Kirkuk

As far as dreaming on goes Ron, the Kurdish population both Shia and Sunni in Turkey, Iraq and in Iran have always desired their own country. So far historically the Kurds, both Shia and Sunni, in Iraq are the only ones who have ever been given any degree of autonomy. Over the past sixteen years they could have broken away from Iraq but they didn't. The current dispute over Kirkuk stems from Saddam Husseins plantation of loyal Sunni Arabs from his own area and the dispossession and displacement of the Kurdish people who lived there. So sorry Ron no new news there.

2) The current arrangement that though income from current oil deposits is to be shared on a per capita basis, new discoveries are to be the property of the province where found.

So much the same as Alberta wants, much the same as Scotland wants. What are your agruements against that situation in either of the countries affected by that? At any rate it would be damn sight better than what was undoubtedly the case under Iraq's previous regime where nothing was "shared" at all. The money went where Saddam Hussein and The Ba'athist regime directed it - mind you rather a lot of it went to the Sunni Arab minority, to the detriment of the majority Shia Arab population - the money went mostly towards ruthlessly suppressing them - but for some reason Mr. Davies seems to have no problem with that, in fact he seems to think that the former state of affairs was more equitable - again millions of Iraqi's would disagree with you.

3) The fear of the Sunnis that the official Iraqi police force is riddled with Shia militias

And the Sunni Arab population have every right to fear an official Iraqi Police Force, or Army, riddled with Shia militias. After all since 1979 the boot was very much on the other foot wasn't it Ron. Iraq is covered with mass graves filled with the bodies of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's, and at least 600 Kuwaiti's, that stand as testiment to the fairmindedness and impartiality of the period where the minority Sunni Arabs held sway in Iraq. The infiltration of the security forces in Iraq by Shia militia groups can be viewed as temporary, a passing phase, which is far different from the organised recruitment of a permanent military force, in fact three of them, with the clearly defined task of suppression of the Iraq people by whatever means necessary. I am talking Ron about Iraq's Republican Guard, the Special Republican Guard and last but not least the Saddam Fedayheen

4) Many other questions--not that I expect you as a stalwart Bush apologist to do anything but stupid slander and classic denial (great job on that with the propaganda thread, by the way) but above all - Again--how many dead "Coalition" soldiers is it worth to you to "stay the course"?--which of course you still have somehow neglected to define. One might think you yourself have no idea what your envisioned "victory" this time --(the second time, since the first one didn't take)--would look like.

Sorry Ron but my track record on answering questions put to me directly is a damn sight better than yours - What was the number of pilots who served in the same OTU with Lt. G.W. Bush learning to fight those F-102A's who then went on to fight in Vietnam? According to Ron it was most of them, asked repeatedly to substantiate his statement, Ron is surprisingly reticent. Still waiting for an answer Ron.

Now then to your question:

"how many dead "Coalition" soldiers is it worth to you to "stay the course"?

The answer to that Ron is as many as it takes, exactly as it was to rid the world of Nazi fascism, the same number as it took to keep the Chinese Communists out of Korea and Malaya, the same number as it took to keep Sukarno out of Sarawak, Brunei, Sabah and Singapore - As many as it takes and I say that as a former member of Britains armed forces with a son currently serving in Britains armed forces.